4 ms·

> And the capitalist system works fine, because if these employees think I'm doing a shit job, they do have a vote: leave and start their own company. I didn't

> And the capitalist system works fine, because if these employees think I'm doing a shit job, they do have a vote: leave and start their own company. I didn't know it was this possible to be so non self aware. > The parts that don't work are actually the more socialist parts of the system, such as bailouts for big behemoth, and regulatory barriers to starting competitors. Socialism is when the government does things, and the more things it does, the socialister it is!

grzm 10y ago
I didn't know it was this possible to be so non self aware. No matter how ignorant you may think another poster is, it's never okay on HN to be uncivil. Particularly with contentious topics, it's even more important to raise to level of civility to ensure constructive discussion.
- kmicklas 10y ago
  This isn't uncivil. This is pointing out that OP's statement is factually ignorant of the economic possibilities for 99% of the population.
  - grzm 10y ago
    If you believe the poster is missing important facts, and you're willing to take the time to do so, let them know what it is you think they're missing in a constructive, non-combative manner. Claiming someone is heretofore unimaginably non self-aware is a direct personal insult, which is never appropriate on HN. Please contribute substantively and civilly, or refrain from doing so.
  - zxcvvcxz 10y ago
    Yes please add some substance to your criticism. There is nothing wrong with criticism of ideas and I welcome it for my own. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I live and work in North America where GDP per capita is something like $54K USD or more. This context makes a difference for your "99%" comment.
zxcvvcxz 10y ago
> I didn't know it was this possible to be so non self aware. Or leave and work for a competitor. I don't put a gun to anybody's head, unlike various socialist governments. Feel free to expand on this thought though. Note that I work in North America and so my expectation of an employee being able to 1) leave and work for someone else, or 2) leave and start their own company, stem from this. > Socialism is when the government does things, and the more things it does, the socialister it is! So what do you call it when the government props up certain businesses (that they prefer) by redistributing my tax dollars thereby shielding them from market forces? I can't think of a libertarian government doing this. And yes, socialism must imply a bigger and more intrusive central management body (aka government) because that's how you "democratize the means of production". You have to enforce such actions with the gun.
- kmicklas 10y ago
  > Or leave and work for a competitor. I don't put a gun to anybody's head, unlike various socialist governments. Only socialist governments put guns to people's heads? > Note that I work in North America and so my expectation of an employee being able to 1) leave and work for someone else, or 2) leave and start their own company, stem from this. Yeah, it's not so easy for most of the world's population. Since you seem to be aware this, note that a less obvious element of this fact is that the reason things seem largely not so bad in the US/Europe is due to the large scale extraction of economic value from less developed countries. That power law is now coming around to bite the US/Europe middle class, and Trump/Brexit is the result. > So what do you call it when the government props up certain businesses (that they prefer) by redistributing my tax dollars thereby shielding them from market forces? I can't think of a libertarian government doing this. Cronyism? Corruption? This really has little to do with economics but is a political problem. The same thing happens in capitalist and socialist countries. > And yes, socialism must imply a bigger and more intrusive central management body (aka government) because that's how you "democratize the means of production". You have to enforce such actions with the gun. Yes because of people like you fighting it... grumble grumble There are actually a lot of "libertarian socialist" theories out there. It's like a blend of anarchism and Marxism.

grzm 10y ago

I didn't know it was this possible to be so non self aware. No matter how ignorant you may think another poster is, it's never okay on HN to be uncivil. Particularly with contentious topics, it's even more important to raise to level of civility to ensure constructive discussion.

kmicklas 10y ago
This isn't uncivil. This is pointing out that OP's statement is factually ignorant of the economic possibilities for 99% of the population.
- grzm 10y ago
  If you believe the poster is missing important facts, and you're willing to take the time to do so, let them know what it is you think they're missing in a constructive, non-combative manner. Claiming someone is heretofore unimaginably non self-aware is a direct personal insult, which is never appropriate on HN. Please contribute substantively and civilly, or refrain from doing so.
- zxcvvcxz 10y ago
  Yes please add some substance to your criticism. There is nothing wrong with criticism of ideas and I welcome it for my own. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I live and work in North America where GDP per capita is something like $54K USD or more. This context makes a difference for your "99%" comment.

zxcvvcxz 10y ago

> I didn't know it was this possible to be so non self aware. Or leave and work for a competitor. I don't put a gun to anybody's head, unlike various socialist governments. Feel free to expand on this thought though. Note that I work in North America and so my expectation of an employee being able to 1) leave and work for someone else, or 2) leave and start their own company, stem from this. > Socialism is when the government does things, and the more things it does, the socialister it is! So what do you call it when the government props up certain businesses (that they prefer) by redistributing my tax dollars thereby shielding them from market forces? I can't think of a libertarian government doing this. And yes, socialism must imply a bigger and more intrusive central management body (aka government) because that's how you "democratize the means of production". You have to enforce such actions with the gun.

kmicklas 10y ago
> Or leave and work for a competitor. I don't put a gun to anybody's head, unlike various socialist governments. Only socialist governments put guns to people's heads? > Note that I work in North America and so my expectation of an employee being able to 1) leave and work for someone else, or 2) leave and start their own company, stem from this. Yeah, it's not so easy for most of the world's population. Since you seem to be aware this, note that a less obvious element of this fact is that the reason things seem largely not so bad in the US/Europe is due to the large scale extraction of economic value from less developed countries. That power law is now coming around to bite the US/Europe middle class, and Trump/Brexit is the result. > So what do you call it when the government props up certain businesses (that they prefer) by redistributing my tax dollars thereby shielding them from market forces? I can't think of a libertarian government doing this. Cronyism? Corruption? This really has little to do with economics but is a political problem. The same thing happens in capitalist and socialist countries. > And yes, socialism must imply a bigger and more intrusive central management body (aka government) because that's how you "democratize the means of production". You have to enforce such actions with the gun. Yes because of people like you fighting it... grumble grumble There are actually a lot of "libertarian socialist" theories out there. It's like a blend of anarchism and Marxism.