5 ms·
I also wonder how it compares in cost to pumped storage hydroelectric. You can use excess power to pump water uphill and then release it to generate hydro powe
by Nition 10y ago
I also wonder how it compares in cost to pumped storage hydroelectric.
You can use excess power to pump water uphill and then release it to generate hydro power when needed. Requires the right geography but it can essentially store huge amounts of power and it's apparently pretty cost effective.
California already has at least a couple that I can see:
- Helms Pumped Storage Plant[1] - 1.2GW capacity
- Castaic Power Plant[2] - 1.5GW capacity
That's like 60+ tesla plants each.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms_Pumped_Storage_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms_Pumped_Storage_Plant
[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaic_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaic_Power_Plant
- secabeen 10y agoPumped storage hydro is great, but it is limited to places that have the right terrain.
- Nition 10y agoI wonder what the cost would be of pumped storage in just like a massive water tank on a hill, or a big manually dug out lake, rather than in somewhere that could actually be a natural lake.
- jccooper 10y agoTaum Sauk, an artificial pumped storage facility which famously failed, was rebuilt to 3600 MW·h for $490 million. So that was like $136 per kwh capacity, though I think they didn't have to do much for the lower reservoir (which was built in the 60s). Seems to be a lot better than batteries, though still requires appropriate terrain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- fcanesin 10y agoSure much better, this California push is a subsidy for battery storage. Not a economical choice. Pumped storage has even the advantage of that it can be implemented during construction of hydroelectric power plants, you just need the interconnected grid, but you will need the grid either way with renewables. In other words: you don't need to build a reservoir. You just need to pump back of the exit of a already existing hydroelectric plant and build the power line to connect both plants.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- epistasis 10y agoThis is flat out wrong, the cost per MWh for stored electricity compares favorably to the natural gas peaker plants that it's replacing, at least when they're built on a usual schedule. I would also like to see evidence for th claim about reusing existing hydroelectric plants, because that does not seem to be consistent with anything I've seen before. It would be very welcome news to me!
- fcanesin 10y agoEvery hydroelectric is a specific project and the waterfall size and volume usually determines the type of turbine (pelton, francis and kaplan are the most popular from high to low) .. the denomination of pumped storage systems is applied when a reversible turbine is used, so no standard hydroelectric with a reservoir will be called pumped system, those are called impoundment. If you abuse nomenclature could be a open-loop pumped system. Discussion with example here: http://e360.yale.edu/features/for_storing_electricity_utilities_are_turning_to_pumped_hydro http://e360.yale.edu/features/for_storing_electricity_utilit... Economic comments here: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph240/galvan-lopez2/ http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph240/galvan-lopez2/
- Animats 10y agoSome of the reservoirs of the California Water Project are used for pumped storage. Water is pumped uphill at night, and some of it is let back down in the afternoon. This would never pay for the reservoir and plant, but it covers the power bill.