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The magnetic power adapter was probably the best feature exclusive to apple products, and I assume that the reason other laptops do not have them was vicious pa

by ouid 10y ago

The magnetic power adapter was probably the best feature exclusive to apple products, and I assume that the reason other laptops do not have them was vicious patent guarding. It improves longevity by so much to not have a piece of the motherboard under constant torque. It was such a superior idea that there can only be one possible philosophy behind the move to abandon it, and that is that longevity is actually bad for apple, especially during the end of Moore's law for personal computing. My 2011 MBP is very unlikely to become obsolete in a technical sense. The battery life is still good, and the processing power is more than sufficient for anything that would not be more cost-effectively computed on a cloud instance or a desktop anyway. That may seem like a great deal of inference, but I don't think it's unjustified. Why else would they opt for inferior technology?

eridius 10y ago
MagSafe was great for dealing with cables draped across the floor in front of you. With 4 USB-C ports, so you can plug your power in to either side, this is no longer an issue. And it looks like doing a MagSafe-style plug for USB-C is actually pretty bulky, as you can see in this Griffin product (https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...). There's also another good reason why specifically Apple wants to get rid of MagSafe (as opposed to it just not being worth it anymore). And that's the fact that MagSafe has insidious problem of laptops sometimes just not charging, and you often don't even notice. I myself have started experiencing this issue with my current laptop and external display - I went for almost a whole day without it charging and didn't realize until I hit 10% battery, and since then, it's been a bit finicky, sometimes requiring me to poke at it several times before it charges properly. I don't know if it's the port or the cable that's having the issue. In any case, I would imagine this issue makes for a non-trivial amount of AppleCare support. And since MagSafe isn't really pulling its weight anymore, now that we have long batteries and can plug the cable on either side, the downsides outweigh the upsides.
- ouid 10y ago
  No, the problem is not that I don't have enough decision about which side my charger goes on. The problem is that my computer, which resides on a table, is connected to the wall, which does not reside on the table. If there is a gap between the wall and the table, and the computer must be connected to the wall in order to accumulate energy, then the cord must necessarily cross that gap. Since the table and the wall are not connected, they are not path connected, which you will note, is a statement which only relies on the topology of the space in which my computer is embedded. Which side I connect my charger to does not change the topology of space-time, so your argument doesn't seem relevant.
  - eridius 10y ago
    Charging a laptop in the middle of a room with the cord stretched across where people normally walk is mostly a relic of the past now that we have much longer battery lives than we used to. These days most people charge their laptop in a situation where the charger is not stretched across the room (e.g. when sitting on a desk against a wall).
    - ouid 10y ago
      Why should it matter how often I charge my computer? The matter at hand is, when my computer requires charging, what is the best way to accomplish it. So you have constructed a use case which is neither based in reality, nor relevant. First, there is no such animal as a person sitting in a cafe with a laptop who is not plugged into the wall. This is easily observed by simply entering a cafe and looking at the people in it. It doesn't matter that people's batteries CAN last a long time without being charged, most people simply don't do that unless there is no other option. Second, I don't bring my computer home and plug it into a stationary dock to allow it to charge like some kind of cordless phone from the 90s. I pick a spot where I want to perform my computer tasks, and when my battery gets low (as it often does because claims of long battery life are largely based on some wildly ideal case) I go grab my charger from the other room and plug it in wherever I am sitting. This is THE typical use case for a laptop computer. Note my use of capital letters. The use case that you have described is strange to the point of being an anomaly. A person who behaves this way is likely not a person at all, but rather a character in the sims. My charger comes to me. My house was built with outlets every 10 feet or so along the walls for almost exactly this purpose. I do not do all of my computing immediately adjacent the walls, and I frequently just leave my computer where it is while I go do something else. Do you not behave this way? If your laptop gets low, do you resignedly go back to your safe table, or do you stay on your couch, like a god damned American.
johnpowell 10y ago
Do you really think a bunch of engineers are sitting around talking about how to make things obsolete faster? We found out who Deep Throat was. Surely someone would come out and expose this big scam. And we hear this about pretty much every category of product. I know for a fact people do sit around and talk about how to make things cheaper.
- ouid 10y ago
  Don't be ridiculous, people sit around and talk about how to maximize profits. That is the MO of a company. Engineers are not excluded from this, and a great many companies have destroyed themselves by making products which have no calculable lifespan. Shitty disposables make companies more money. Really expensive disposables even more. There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy, it's just the only way to successfully do business. Personal computers very conveniently went obsolete all by themselves for decades. Now Apple has to push software updates which reduce battery life in order to convince you that there is any reason at all to get a new phone. Those updates have gotten a lot less optional, and the "improvements" a lot more marginal. It's a philosophy that is reflected at apple through just about every corporate decision they have made. The inability to make incremental upgrades to any apple product, or perform repairs without it being a part of the apple business model. Or Air pods, which are basically an off season april fools joke. The MagSafe adapter has itself gone through iterations which make them less backwards compatible and less functional. A major problem for power cables is that force at the joint between the rigid connector and flexible wire is prone to failure. The original magsafe adapter solved this problem [1]. a small amount of force at the problem area provided sufficient leverage to disconnect the power. This ensured that it was hard to use the power cord in such a way that promoted early failure, and gave the user the option of two orientations, potentially lessening the stress to the affected joint. They phased this design out for the much less sleek looking bulky orthogonal connector, which stays firmly locked in place through all sorts of damaging configurations, while providing no other justification for the "design" choice. That this product was particularly prone to failure is made evident in the class action settlement, although you may read this as you like. https://www.adaptersettlement.com/ https://www.adaptersettlement.com/ So before you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist for proposing that computer companies sometimes break your property for profit, You might actually want to read about what the courts are saying, although the case in regards to the deceptive trade practices when rolling out iOS 9 on older phones is still unsettled, the facts very much are settled, and only the courts and the defense lag. [1] http://warungmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/original-apple-magsafe-60w-power-adapter-with-ac-extension-wall-cord-for-apple-macbook-and-13-inch-macbook-pro_6419_500.jpg http://warungmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/original-app...

by ouid 10y ago

eridius 10y ago

MagSafe was great for dealing with cables draped across the floor in front of you. With 4 USB-C ports, so you can plug your power in to either side, this is no longer an issue. And it looks like doing a MagSafe-style plug for USB-C is actually pretty bulky, as you can see in this Griffin product (https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...). There's also another good reason why specifically Apple wants to get rid of MagSafe (as opposed to it just not being worth it anymore). And that's the fact that MagSafe has insidious problem of laptops sometimes just not charging, and you often don't even notice. I myself have started experiencing this issue with my current laptop and external display - I went for almost a whole day without it charging and didn't realize until I hit 10% battery, and since then, it's been a bit finicky, sometimes requiring me to poke at it several times before it charges properly. I don't know if it's the port or the cable that's having the issue. In any case, I would imagine this issue makes for a non-trivial amount of AppleCare support. And since MagSafe isn't really pulling its weight anymore, now that we have long batteries and can plug the cable on either side, the downsides outweigh the upsides.

ouid 10y ago
No, the problem is not that I don't have enough decision about which side my charger goes on. The problem is that my computer, which resides on a table, is connected to the wall, which does not reside on the table. If there is a gap between the wall and the table, and the computer must be connected to the wall in order to accumulate energy, then the cord must necessarily cross that gap. Since the table and the wall are not connected, they are not path connected, which you will note, is a statement which only relies on the topology of the space in which my computer is embedded. Which side I connect my charger to does not change the topology of space-time, so your argument doesn't seem relevant.
- eridius 10y ago
  Charging a laptop in the middle of a room with the cord stretched across where people normally walk is mostly a relic of the past now that we have much longer battery lives than we used to. These days most people charge their laptop in a situation where the charger is not stretched across the room (e.g. when sitting on a desk against a wall).
  - ouid 10y ago
    Why should it matter how often I charge my computer? The matter at hand is, when my computer requires charging, what is the best way to accomplish it. So you have constructed a use case which is neither based in reality, nor relevant. First, there is no such animal as a person sitting in a cafe with a laptop who is not plugged into the wall. This is easily observed by simply entering a cafe and looking at the people in it. It doesn't matter that people's batteries CAN last a long time without being charged, most people simply don't do that unless there is no other option. Second, I don't bring my computer home and plug it into a stationary dock to allow it to charge like some kind of cordless phone from the 90s. I pick a spot where I want to perform my computer tasks, and when my battery gets low (as it often does because claims of long battery life are largely based on some wildly ideal case) I go grab my charger from the other room and plug it in wherever I am sitting. This is THE typical use case for a laptop computer. Note my use of capital letters. The use case that you have described is strange to the point of being an anomaly. A person who behaves this way is likely not a person at all, but rather a character in the sims. My charger comes to me. My house was built with outlets every 10 feet or so along the walls for almost exactly this purpose. I do not do all of my computing immediately adjacent the walls, and I frequently just leave my computer where it is while I go do something else. Do you not behave this way? If your laptop gets low, do you resignedly go back to your safe table, or do you stay on your couch, like a god damned American.

johnpowell 10y ago

Do you really think a bunch of engineers are sitting around talking about how to make things obsolete faster? We found out who Deep Throat was. Surely someone would come out and expose this big scam. And we hear this about pretty much every category of product. I know for a fact people do sit around and talk about how to make things cheaper.

ouid 10y ago
Don't be ridiculous, people sit around and talk about how to maximize profits. That is the MO of a company. Engineers are not excluded from this, and a great many companies have destroyed themselves by making products which have no calculable lifespan. Shitty disposables make companies more money. Really expensive disposables even more. There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy, it's just the only way to successfully do business. Personal computers very conveniently went obsolete all by themselves for decades. Now Apple has to push software updates which reduce battery life in order to convince you that there is any reason at all to get a new phone. Those updates have gotten a lot less optional, and the "improvements" a lot more marginal. It's a philosophy that is reflected at apple through just about every corporate decision they have made. The inability to make incremental upgrades to any apple product, or perform repairs without it being a part of the apple business model. Or Air pods, which are basically an off season april fools joke. The MagSafe adapter has itself gone through iterations which make them less backwards compatible and less functional. A major problem for power cables is that force at the joint between the rigid connector and flexible wire is prone to failure. The original magsafe adapter solved this problem [1]. a small amount of force at the problem area provided sufficient leverage to disconnect the power. This ensured that it was hard to use the power cord in such a way that promoted early failure, and gave the user the option of two orientations, potentially lessening the stress to the affected joint. They phased this design out for the much less sleek looking bulky orthogonal connector, which stays firmly locked in place through all sorts of damaging configurations, while providing no other justification for the "design" choice. That this product was particularly prone to failure is made evident in the class action settlement, although you may read this as you like. https://www.adaptersettlement.com/ https://www.adaptersettlement.com/ So before you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist for proposing that computer companies sometimes break your property for profit, You might actually want to read about what the courts are saying, although the case in regards to the deceptive trade practices when rolling out iOS 9 on older phones is still unsettled, the facts very much are settled, and only the courts and the defense lag. [1] http://warungmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/original-apple-magsafe-60w-power-adapter-with-ac-extension-wall-cord-for-apple-macbook-and-13-inch-macbook-pro_6419_500.jpg http://warungmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/original-app...