4 ms·

It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. It's far less "serial" th

It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. It's far less "serial" than it used to be, though.

m_mueller 10y ago
except there's already a bunch of different usb-c cables looking identical but being incompatible in subtle ways, including official Apple ones?
- grzm 10y ago
  I've read about situations like this, and it's frustrating to think that something like this can occur. I think it's reasonable to wonder how often this is actually in issue in practice. I don't have a new MBP (or any peripherals for that matter), so I can't speak to this directly. Do you have a new MBP or know anyone personally who does? Have you or they had any issues with cable incompatibility?
- derefr 10y ago
  This is just as true of any other cable. The Lightning cables you can buy at the corner store look like regular ones, but they don't have data lines, and they won't charge at full voltage. Cables are just awful. Or, one might say, knock-off cables are awful, and you shouldn't let them polute your junk drawer lest you never sort them back out.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    you're missing the > including official Apple ones part here. If Apple had planned it better, all their USB-C cables (starting with the Macbook One) could do all the functions they need for any Apple product going forward. But even today, if you walk to an Apple store and buy a bunch of USB-C Apple products, you'll probably have to color code them yourself to not mix them up, because it won't work if you do. All Apple is helping here is saying "if you have a cable with an intsy tiny serial number print starting with X, use it only for Y". Gee thanks, that sure is a great ecosystem you got going here Apple. There's a reason why Apple 1997 - 2007 pushed interoperable standards hard (examples: USB-A, 802.11B and then G, Firewire, mini-DP). None of these had connectors that you could confuse, including when switching between different Firewire standards, and these buses did fairly complex things as well. They even had a powerbook generation with two different Firewire ports so people don't get left hanging with their old Firewire devices. That's all under Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, just Ive not being the one in charge of doing these decisions.
    - macintux 10y ago
      As I understand it, there's a pretty significant tradeoff involved. If you want a USB-C cable that does everything, you're going to pay a lot more and get something that's much thicker than you need to, say, charge an iPhone. So yes, ideally all Apple cables would do everything imaginable, but I understand why they didn't choose to do that.
      - m_mueller 10y ago
        But that's the thing, they don't even use it to charge iPhones, and your argument would be one for them to keep lightning, which seems like a fine connector to me. But Apple has been pushing USB-C on personal computers, and there IMO they should just have waited and then jumped on the first solution that does everything.
    - AlphaSite 10y ago
      I'm not sure, but I would argue having a charging cable with no data pins is the best thing you can do for security (for an unassuming user) so people can just charge of random USB ports without worrying about potential exploits.
- huxley 10y ago
  There's industry-wide confusion related to the USB-C plug USB-C != USB 3.1 https://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-type-c-finally-on-its-way-alongside-usb-3-1s-10gbit-performance https://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-... USB-C != Thunderbolt 3 http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/ http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-th...
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    The extremetech article really frustrates me. So, can I plug in a USB 3.0 device with USB-C connector to a USB-C Macbook Pro (that has USB 3.1)? What about the Macbook One? sigh
dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
> It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. Well, anything but USB 1-3! :face-with-tears-of-pain: Also, all the ports may look the same, even fit the same port, but they're not the same, which is a terrible user experience. All in all, I can say I understand nothing about usb-c with confidence except I don't have any usb cables to stick in the ports and nowhere to stick the usb cables I do have.
- josephg 10y ago
  > Also, all the ports may look the same, even fit the same port, but they're not the same, which is a terrible user experience. Thats true of some laptops, but the new macbook pros allow any connection (power/display/whataver) to any of the usb-c ports. When I'm lying in bed I can now roll over and just swap which side of the laptop the power cable connects to. (Well apparently the ports on one side of the machine are a bit faster, but I don't know of any USB devices which can take advantage of even the slower speed USB 3.1 provides. I certainly don't own any.)

It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. It's far less "serial" than it used to be, though.

m_mueller 10y ago

except there's already a bunch of different usb-c cables looking identical but being incompatible in subtle ways, including official Apple ones?

grzm 10y ago
I've read about situations like this, and it's frustrating to think that something like this can occur. I think it's reasonable to wonder how often this is actually in issue in practice. I don't have a new MBP (or any peripherals for that matter), so I can't speak to this directly. Do you have a new MBP or know anyone personally who does? Have you or they had any issues with cable incompatibility?
derefr 10y ago
This is just as true of any other cable. The Lightning cables you can buy at the corner store look like regular ones, but they don't have data lines, and they won't charge at full voltage. Cables are just awful. Or, one might say, knock-off cables are awful, and you shouldn't let them polute your junk drawer lest you never sort them back out.
- m_mueller 10y ago
  you're missing the > including official Apple ones part here. If Apple had planned it better, all their USB-C cables (starting with the Macbook One) could do all the functions they need for any Apple product going forward. But even today, if you walk to an Apple store and buy a bunch of USB-C Apple products, you'll probably have to color code them yourself to not mix them up, because it won't work if you do. All Apple is helping here is saying "if you have a cable with an intsy tiny serial number print starting with X, use it only for Y". Gee thanks, that sure is a great ecosystem you got going here Apple. There's a reason why Apple 1997 - 2007 pushed interoperable standards hard (examples: USB-A, 802.11B and then G, Firewire, mini-DP). None of these had connectors that you could confuse, including when switching between different Firewire standards, and these buses did fairly complex things as well. They even had a powerbook generation with two different Firewire ports so people don't get left hanging with their old Firewire devices. That's all under Steve Jobs and Jony Ive, just Ive not being the one in charge of doing these decisions.
  - macintux 10y ago
    As I understand it, there's a pretty significant tradeoff involved. If you want a USB-C cable that does everything, you're going to pay a lot more and get something that's much thicker than you need to, say, charge an iPhone. So yes, ideally all Apple cables would do everything imaginable, but I understand why they didn't choose to do that.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      But that's the thing, they don't even use it to charge iPhones, and your argument would be one for them to keep lightning, which seems like a fine connector to me. But Apple has been pushing USB-C on personal computers, and there IMO they should just have waited and then jumped on the first solution that does everything.
  - AlphaSite 10y ago
    I'm not sure, but I would argue having a charging cable with no data pins is the best thing you can do for security (for an unassuming user) so people can just charge of random USB ports without worrying about potential exploits.
huxley 10y ago
There's industry-wide confusion related to the USB-C plug USB-C != USB 3.1 https://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-type-c-finally-on-its-way-alongside-usb-3-1s-10gbit-performance https://www.extremetech.com/computing/197145-reversible-usb-... USB-C != Thunderbolt 3 http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/ http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-th...
- m_mueller 10y ago
  The extremetech article really frustrates me. So, can I plug in a USB 3.0 device with USB-C connector to a USB-C Macbook Pro (that has USB 3.1)? What about the Macbook One? sigh

dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago

> It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. Well, anything but USB 1-3! :face-with-tears-of-pain: Also, all the ports may look the same, even fit the same port, but they're not the same, which is a terrible user experience. All in all, I can say I understand nothing about usb-c with confidence except I don't have any usb cables to stick in the ports and nowhere to stick the usb cables I do have.

josephg 10y ago
> Also, all the ports may look the same, even fit the same port, but they're not the same, which is a terrible user experience. Thats true of some laptops, but the new macbook pros allow any connection (power/display/whataver) to any of the usb-c ports. When I'm lying in bed I can now roll over and just swap which side of the laptop the power cable connects to. (Well apparently the ports on one side of the machine are a bit faster, but I don't know of any USB devices which can take advantage of even the slower speed USB 3.1 provides. I certainly don't own any.)