4 ms·

You might need to distill off the methanol that might be present, if you're blacking out. Had a similar problem with some homebrew wine where a glass tossed me

You might need to distill off the methanol that might be present, if you're blacking out. Had a similar problem with some homebrew wine where a glass tossed me to blacking out (yet I can toss back a half pint of vodka without too much issue.) Turned out there was a good amount of methanol in there.

civilian 10y ago
I was going to ask sgt101 to send me a galloon of his cyder before I read your comment, hah. Uh yeah, methanol is scary.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  I've heard third hand rumors of people at fancy parties using sublingual methanol drops recreationally. Sounds insane to me, if true.
moron4hire 10y ago
Or you could just sanitize your filthy carboy before brewing.
- lightedman 10y ago
  Wrong. Natural yeasts produce methanol in fairly sufficient amounts to cause damage even when mixed with ethanol.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - cthalupa 10y ago
    Source? I harvest my own wild yeast, order interesting samples from boutique yeast labs, and am involved in communities dedicated to this sort of thing, and as such, have also read mountains of research. All the research I've read, all of the things I've brewed, and all of the people I've spoken to that do this say quite the opposite. Fruit pectin can be broken down into methanol, but it creates tiny amounts. You're talking like 20 to 200mg per liter.
    - lightedman 10y ago
      I've been brewing for roughly 15 years, and let me tell you, there are more yeasts than you'll suspect in your batch if you're going with the natural yeast present directly on the grape and nothing else. Plenty of them have zero issues making lots of methanol and if they manage to become the dominant culture, well... BTW - prison hooch methanol poisonings would like to have a word with you. Even regular bread yeasts will make enough methanol.
      - moron4hire 10y ago
        That's bacteria, dude, not yeast.
        lightedman 10y ago
        Incorrect. Bacteria typically do it with ammonia compounds, not pectins and sugars. http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol
        moron4hire 10y ago
        I am not disputing that "some" level of methanol is created by yeast fermentation. But you are not going to get anything approaching a significant amount of methanol out of it, unless you have an infection. Especially if we're talking about blacking out, as the GP post was saying. If you have enough methanol to be problem, it's because you're equipment is dirty. You'll get more methanol from a week-old jug of orange juice than you will out of making grape wine in warm conditions. But this is typical of people. You're so quick to gleefully jump and declare someone "WRONG!" that they don't take a moment to figure out if their evidence even means anything. It's why I can't stand being on most programming or brewing forums anymore. Folks like you ruin it.
        lightedman 10y ago
        "Especially if we're talking about blacking out, as the GP post was saying. If you have enough methanol to be problem, it's because you're equipment is dirty." No, as I buy brand new carboys every time. PET 3-gallon bottles are had for like 5 bucks each and I just give them to someone else to sterilize and use in their water cooler when I'm done making a batch of wine. Here's why I get methanol - A. high natural yeast concentration. B. Raw unfiltered mash - the grapes have had a gentle sterilizing soak in 300 ppm cold bleach water solution for 60 seconds. This wipes out most bacteria but leaves the natural yeasts mostly untouched (the haze on grapes resists lower concentrations of bleach.) This means I have tons of pectins as I'm not fermenting filtered juice like most people would when making wine, I ferment the entire thing to get maximum flavor profile (and you can't obtain such a natural blush otherwise.) Fifteen years of doing it. I have my brewer's certifcation and used to work for (ugh) Coors.
somberi 10y ago
Hooch / Bootleg alcohol are rife with methanol-related deaths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methanol_poisoning_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methanol_poisoning_inc...
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  I always thought that was because methylated spirits were used in place of pure alcohol? I.e. not a fermentation issue.
  - lightedman 10y ago
    Nope. In Mississippi prisons (Did some time myself) we just took OJ and yeast-leavened bread from our lunch trays, sealed it in a plastic bag, and had hooch in a couple days.
mattkrause 10y ago
How sure are you about this? From what I've read, it is very hard to generate methanol via fermentation alone[0] and home-brew usually has 2-3 ppm, versus a LD_{50} in the tens of thousands of ppm. Obviously, there might be problems well before the LD_{50}, but that's a lot of wiggle room (and methanol would be out-competed by the ethanol which is presumably also in the booze). [0] Concentrating the wine via freezing (as in some ice wines or applejack) might be an exception to this, but I'm not sure.
- lightedman 10y ago
  Very sure as I was using naturally-present yeast instead of any brewer's yeast or bread yeast. Methanol content is something to look out for when you use natural yeasts. Source: 15 years brewing/distilling. Just got lazy/too self-assured one day.
  - mattkrause 10y ago
    Hmmm.... It does look pectin can be degraded into methanol by some microbes. I'm surprised there was enough feedstock to generate a problematic amount of methanol, but I'm glad you're ok.

civilian 10y ago

I was going to ask sgt101 to send me a galloon of his cyder before I read your comment, hah. Uh yeah, methanol is scary.

nitrogen 10y ago
I've heard third hand rumors of people at fancy parties using sublingual methanol drops recreationally. Sounds insane to me, if true.

moron4hire 10y ago

Or you could just sanitize your filthy carboy before brewing.

lightedman 10y ago
Wrong. Natural yeasts produce methanol in fairly sufficient amounts to cause damage even when mixed with ethanol.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cthalupa 10y ago
  Source? I harvest my own wild yeast, order interesting samples from boutique yeast labs, and am involved in communities dedicated to this sort of thing, and as such, have also read mountains of research. All the research I've read, all of the things I've brewed, and all of the people I've spoken to that do this say quite the opposite. Fruit pectin can be broken down into methanol, but it creates tiny amounts. You're talking like 20 to 200mg per liter.
  - lightedman 10y ago
    I've been brewing for roughly 15 years, and let me tell you, there are more yeasts than you'll suspect in your batch if you're going with the natural yeast present directly on the grape and nothing else. Plenty of them have zero issues making lots of methanol and if they manage to become the dominant culture, well... BTW - prison hooch methanol poisonings would like to have a word with you. Even regular bread yeasts will make enough methanol.
    - moron4hire 10y ago
      That's bacteria, dude, not yeast.
      - lightedman 10y ago
        Incorrect. Bacteria typically do it with ammonia compounds, not pectins and sugars. http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol
        moron4hire 10y ago
        I am not disputing that "some" level of methanol is created by yeast fermentation. But you are not going to get anything approaching a significant amount of methanol out of it, unless you have an infection. Especially if we're talking about blacking out, as the GP post was saying. If you have enough methanol to be problem, it's because you're equipment is dirty. You'll get more methanol from a week-old jug of orange juice than you will out of making grape wine in warm conditions. But this is typical of people. You're so quick to gleefully jump and declare someone "WRONG!" that they don't take a moment to figure out if their evidence even means anything. It's why I can't stand being on most programming or brewing forums anymore. Folks like you ruin it.
        lightedman 10y ago
        "Especially if we're talking about blacking out, as the GP post was saying. If you have enough methanol to be problem, it's because you're equipment is dirty." No, as I buy brand new carboys every time. PET 3-gallon bottles are had for like 5 bucks each and I just give them to someone else to sterilize and use in their water cooler when I'm done making a batch of wine. Here's why I get methanol - A. high natural yeast concentration. B. Raw unfiltered mash - the grapes have had a gentle sterilizing soak in 300 ppm cold bleach water solution for 60 seconds. This wipes out most bacteria but leaves the natural yeasts mostly untouched (the haze on grapes resists lower concentrations of bleach.) This means I have tons of pectins as I'm not fermenting filtered juice like most people would when making wine, I ferment the entire thing to get maximum flavor profile (and you can't obtain such a natural blush otherwise.) Fifteen years of doing it. I have my brewer's certifcation and used to work for (ugh) Coors.

somberi 10y ago

Hooch / Bootleg alcohol are rife with methanol-related deaths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methanol_poisoning_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methanol_poisoning_inc...

bbcbasic 10y ago
I always thought that was because methylated spirits were used in place of pure alcohol? I.e. not a fermentation issue.
- lightedman 10y ago
  Nope. In Mississippi prisons (Did some time myself) we just took OJ and yeast-leavened bread from our lunch trays, sealed it in a plastic bag, and had hooch in a couple days.

mattkrause 10y ago

How sure are you about this? From what I've read, it is very hard to generate methanol via fermentation alone[0] and home-brew usually has 2-3 ppm, versus a LD_{50} in the tens of thousands of ppm. Obviously, there might be problems well before the LD_{50}, but that's a lot of wiggle room (and methanol would be out-competed by the ethanol which is presumably also in the booze). [0] Concentrating the wine via freezing (as in some ice wines or applejack) might be an exception to this, but I'm not sure.

lightedman 10y ago
Very sure as I was using naturally-present yeast instead of any brewer's yeast or bread yeast. Methanol content is something to look out for when you use natural yeasts. Source: 15 years brewing/distilling. Just got lazy/too self-assured one day.
- mattkrause 10y ago
  Hmmm.... It does look pectin can be degraded into methanol by some microbes. I'm surprised there was enough feedstock to generate a problematic amount of methanol, but I'm glad you're ok.