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How is this to your advantage? Are you having hard time securing a full-time dev job with a US tech company? Last time I checked, there was more demand and shor

How is this to your advantage? Are you having hard time securing a full-time dev job with a US tech company? Last time I checked, there was more demand and shortage of supply for smart programmers (I have been interviewing a lot). Do you happen to work in a region where there are less tech jobs?

rhapsodic 10y ago
It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. To answer your question, I don't have trouble finding or keeping employment. This move will simply drive up my market value. So I'm for it.
- explainthisth 10y ago
  How do you figure? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. I'm very unsure about this, but thinking maybe I should hurry and buy a house if this passes.
  - rhapsodic 10y ago
    > You sure about that? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. The supply is artificially set by law. The fact that they will cost $130K instead of whatever it was before will make it much easier for me to compete with them. It might also make it economically feasible for US companies to hire US workers who might not have all of the needed skills, and train them. That works for me.
    - explainthisth 10y ago
      It should make it easier for Americans to get the jobs Infosys is hiring for at $70k, and harder for Americans to get jobs from Google at $250k.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        There's nothing wrong with working for Infosys. How many people you think are capable and want to work for Google?
        explainthisth 10y ago
        I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong. I'm just saying the set of people that get H1B visas will change, and the shift will be toward higher-end jobs.
      - rhapsodic 10y ago
        > It should make it easier for Americans to get the jobs Infosys is hiring for at $70k, and harder for Americans to get jobs from Google at $250k. Why would it make a qualified American developer less attractive to Google?
        explainthisth 10y ago
        Because it will become easier to import someone who is more qualified.
        rhapsodic 10y ago
        It will be more expensive. How will it become more easier?
        explainthisth 10y ago
        Because the visas are distributed by lottery, and the largest number of applications are filed by Isfosys-type spammers. People with >$130k jobs in SV are being denied due to the $70k body shops spamming the lottery. If the spam goes away, those non-spam applications become a more reliable proposition.
- tn13 10y ago
  > It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer. If Citibank charges $25 monthly fee they might have to charge $30 to make the same money. That generally hurts American consumer just the way American protectionism towards Steel and Sugar industry hurts American consumers while benefiting special interest groups. For those of us who have taken Econ 101 can tell you that this is even worse for resources such as human mind. The marginal impact on salaries with every additional H1B US taken in next to 0 simply because Job at higher end are not zero sum game. Each extra person helps grow the pie significantly this increasing the salaries even further. For low value jobs such as a gardener, a cheaper labor will replace the expensive one because having two gardeners does not increase the productivity of the employer by 2X. But for high-end jobs such as say a Doctor, having many doctors would mean more drugs, faster solution to diabetes and cancer.
  - rboyd 10y ago
    This was a nice stroll through fantasy land. The reality though is that H-1B has been so completely abused over the past decade to the point that wages for skilled Americans have suffered a serious pushdown effect. It's not the fault of the workers, and if this goes through we're sad that folks will feel some pain, but it's about time this gets patched up.
  - rhapsodic 10y ago
    > The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer. You're quite right, of course, and until about a week ago, I would have opposed this change to the law on that basis. But I've had a bellyful of being lectured and name-called by self-righteous billionaires. So now whatever hurts them and helps me, I'm all for. And although protectionism does hurt a country overall, it helps individuals and companies that are protected from competition. And for this change to the H1B law, I fall into that group. So bring on the protectionism, I say.
yazaddaruvala 10y ago
By definition, increasing barriers to entry, drives supply down. Holding demand constant, and assuming price elasticity: Lowering supply, increases "prices" (in this case salaries). Assumption, demand is constant: I'm talking about demand in the economic sense, i.e. The demand curve. The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill. i.e. We still need the same number of software developers, and for any $X/person companies are willing to hire Y number of people. Assumption, Price Elasticity: For the most part this assumption holds because, fortunately, software companies do seem to be making profits. Implying, they have the means to increase wages. All in all, this is in the best interest of any person in a profession where many H1-Bs currently hold a position, and whose company is currently profitable.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill Globally, sure, but the global supply of labor in any field isn't changed, only the US supply. In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers. To the extent this is true in any field, the effect of restricting visa supply is to offshore more work.
  - ganeshkrishnan 10y ago
    This. Outsourcing to India had slowed down in the last few years because wages in India shot up and it didn't make sense to outsource. See: http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tech-enter-cx_sm_0229outsource.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tec... The wages for IT workers rose insanely in India. In places like Salt Lake (where IBM, CTS and other bigwigs are established) they drove the real estate prices by more than 10x in few years. The decline started few years back when the cost to outsource was nearly equal to paying an H1b person or hiring a local. Most tech companies including Apple & Google hardly pay any tax, would you really expect them to pay artificial rates for labor?
  - Gargoyle 10y ago
    Sounds like no one is hurt by this then. Let's do it.

rhapsodic 10y ago

It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. To answer your question, I don't have trouble finding or keeping employment. This move will simply drive up my market value. So I'm for it.

explainthisth 10y ago
How do you figure? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. I'm very unsure about this, but thinking maybe I should hurry and buy a house if this passes.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > You sure about that? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. The supply is artificially set by law. The fact that they will cost $130K instead of whatever it was before will make it much easier for me to compete with them. It might also make it economically feasible for US companies to hire US workers who might not have all of the needed skills, and train them. That works for me.
  - explainthisth 10y ago
    It should make it easier for Americans to get the jobs Infosys is hiring for at $70k, and harder for Americans to get jobs from Google at $250k.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      There's nothing wrong with working for Infosys. How many people you think are capable and want to work for Google?
      - explainthisth 10y ago
        I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong. I'm just saying the set of people that get H1B visas will change, and the shift will be toward higher-end jobs.
    - rhapsodic 10y ago
      > It should make it easier for Americans to get the jobs Infosys is hiring for at $70k, and harder for Americans to get jobs from Google at $250k. Why would it make a qualified American developer less attractive to Google?
      - explainthisth 10y ago
        Because it will become easier to import someone who is more qualified.
        rhapsodic 10y ago
        It will be more expensive. How will it become more easier?
        explainthisth 10y ago
        Because the visas are distributed by lottery, and the largest number of applications are filed by Isfosys-type spammers. People with >$130k jobs in SV are being denied due to the $70k body shops spamming the lottery. If the spam goes away, those non-spam applications become a more reliable proposition.
tn13 10y ago
> It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer. If Citibank charges $25 monthly fee they might have to charge $30 to make the same money. That generally hurts American consumer just the way American protectionism towards Steel and Sugar industry hurts American consumers while benefiting special interest groups. For those of us who have taken Econ 101 can tell you that this is even worse for resources such as human mind. The marginal impact on salaries with every additional H1B US taken in next to 0 simply because Job at higher end are not zero sum game. Each extra person helps grow the pie significantly this increasing the salaries even further. For low value jobs such as a gardener, a cheaper labor will replace the expensive one because having two gardeners does not increase the productivity of the employer by 2X. But for high-end jobs such as say a Doctor, having many doctors would mean more drugs, faster solution to diabetes and cancer.
- rboyd 10y ago
  This was a nice stroll through fantasy land. The reality though is that H-1B has been so completely abused over the past decade to the point that wages for skilled Americans have suffered a serious pushdown effect. It's not the fault of the workers, and if this goes through we're sad that folks will feel some pain, but it's about time this gets patched up.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer. You're quite right, of course, and until about a week ago, I would have opposed this change to the law on that basis. But I've had a bellyful of being lectured and name-called by self-righteous billionaires. So now whatever hurts them and helps me, I'm all for. And although protectionism does hurt a country overall, it helps individuals and companies that are protected from competition. And for this change to the H1B law, I fall into that group. So bring on the protectionism, I say.

yazaddaruvala 10y ago

By definition, increasing barriers to entry, drives supply down. Holding demand constant, and assuming price elasticity: Lowering supply, increases "prices" (in this case salaries). Assumption, demand is constant: I'm talking about demand in the economic sense, i.e. The demand curve. The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill. i.e. We still need the same number of software developers, and for any $X/person companies are willing to hire Y number of people. Assumption, Price Elasticity: For the most part this assumption holds because, fortunately, software companies do seem to be making profits. Implying, they have the means to increase wages. All in all, this is in the best interest of any person in a profession where many H1-Bs currently hold a position, and whose company is currently profitable.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> The demand curve is left unchanged by this bill Globally, sure, but the global supply of labor in any field isn't changed, only the US supply. In many cases, H-1B work isn't extremely location-sensitive, and foreign suppliers are acceptable substitutes to local suppliers. To the extent this is true in any field, the effect of restricting visa supply is to offshore more work.
- ganeshkrishnan 10y ago
  This. Outsourcing to India had slowed down in the last few years because wages in India shot up and it didn't make sense to outsource. See: http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tech-enter-cx_sm_0229outsource.html http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tec... The wages for IT workers rose insanely in India. In places like Salt Lake (where IBM, CTS and other bigwigs are established) they drove the real estate prices by more than 10x in few years. The decline started few years back when the cost to outsource was nearly equal to paying an H1b person or hiring a local. Most tech companies including Apple & Google hardly pay any tax, would you really expect them to pay artificial rates for labor?
- Gargoyle 10y ago
  Sounds like no one is hurt by this then. Let's do it.