5 ms·

> You can raise the bar arbitrarily high, though You can, but then you run head-first into another problem: this "bar-raising" undermines the legitimacy of the

> You can raise the bar arbitrarily high, though You can, but then you run head-first into another problem: this "bar-raising" undermines the legitimacy of the system in the eyes of the people and, not unjustifiably, makes them feel that it is undemocratic. Worse: this is a positive feedback loop. The more you raise the bar, the angrier people get and the more radical they will get in their attempts to tear it down, and so the more bar-raising is needed. This is the unfortunate paradox that Matthew Yglesias highlighted in "American Democracy is Doomed" [0]: people are raging against horse-trading, organized parties, and 'elites' poo-poohing the "will of the people". This is totally defensible, but to some extent horse-trading and elite rule are the only things that make governance possible. I don't know any solution to this problem. [0] http://www.vox.com/2015/3/2/8120063/american-democracy-doomed http://www.vox.com/2015/3/2/8120063/american-democracy-doome...

npiazza83 10y ago
handouts.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  "The dole" didn't save the Roman Republic.
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    Not only that but given there are 318 million people in the US it costs 2.5 billion dollars to buy everyone lunch one time. Good luck bribing that many people into complacency without running out of GDP.
  - Nomentatus 10y ago
    Not for more than a few centuries.
  - anonbanker 10y ago
    Remember the Bush (43) "Stimulus" cheques everyone got? Those were fun.
guimarin 10y ago
gov't is currently optimized with only two of three core primitives (literacy+numeracy). Gov't like all institutions will be re-developed with the relatively (50years) new primitive, computeracy. Nothing like automation and disagregated decision making exists in the corporate bureaucracy of government today. If you want more outcome, you literally have to hire more ppl. There is no software leverage in government. Changing that changes everything. Our problem is we are alive at a time similar to when literacy became possible for everyone. It's very obvious that institutions not built on literacy would change, but it took nearly 100 years.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>This is the unfortunate paradox that Matthew Yglesias highlighted in "American Democracy is Doomed" [0]: people are raging against horse-trading, organized parties, and 'elites' poo-poohing the "will of the people". This is totally defensible, but to some extent horse-trading and elite rule are the only things that make governance possible. I don't know any solution to this problem. Well, I think a parliamentary system with proportional representation would help a lot. In those systems, the parties/lists might trade horses, but you know that your vote bought some measure of strength for a platform you actually believe in. Oh, and real civil-service protections to keep government staff from being fired for political reasons, including for security and military officials.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  I used to think that, but based on recent events I'm not so sure: European Parliamentary governments seem to be having the same populist uprisings based on perceived illegitimacy and disconnect from of government that we are. All things being equal, I'd rather the US had a Parliamentary system, but I don't think it's a silver bullet.

npiazza83 10y ago

handouts.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
"The dole" didn't save the Roman Republic.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  Not only that but given there are 318 million people in the US it costs 2.5 billion dollars to buy everyone lunch one time. Good luck bribing that many people into complacency without running out of GDP.
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  Not for more than a few centuries.
- anonbanker 10y ago
  Remember the Bush (43) "Stimulus" cheques everyone got? Those were fun.

guimarin 10y ago

gov't is currently optimized with only two of three core primitives (literacy+numeracy). Gov't like all institutions will be re-developed with the relatively (50years) new primitive, computeracy. Nothing like automation and disagregated decision making exists in the corporate bureaucracy of government today. If you want more outcome, you literally have to hire more ppl. There is no software leverage in government. Changing that changes everything. Our problem is we are alive at a time similar to when literacy became possible for everyone. It's very obvious that institutions not built on literacy would change, but it took nearly 100 years.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

>This is the unfortunate paradox that Matthew Yglesias highlighted in "American Democracy is Doomed" [0]: people are raging against horse-trading, organized parties, and 'elites' poo-poohing the "will of the people". This is totally defensible, but to some extent horse-trading and elite rule are the only things that make governance possible. I don't know any solution to this problem. Well, I think a parliamentary system with proportional representation would help a lot. In those systems, the parties/lists might trade horses, but you know that your vote bought some measure of strength for a platform you actually believe in. Oh, and real civil-service protections to keep government staff from being fired for political reasons, including for security and military officials.

Analemma_ 10y ago
I used to think that, but based on recent events I'm not so sure: European Parliamentary governments seem to be having the same populist uprisings based on perceived illegitimacy and disconnect from of government that we are. All things being equal, I'd rather the US had a Parliamentary system, but I don't think it's a silver bullet.