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H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf]
- mavelikara 10y agoOther relevant discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529792
- kirillzubovsky 10y agoLooks like a good move, aimed at reducing H1B misuse by the outsourcing companies that arbitrage wages for large employers like Microsoft, while enabling move visas for other employers. Curious to see how this bill would prevent the major outsources from forming a load of subsidiaries and gaming the system anyway. Maybe it's more of a bill for show, than to actually solve anything. Also, for those jobs with lower income potential, the question still stands - can the employers find enough US citizens to take on those jobs (and do them well), given the the low salary.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- EduardoBautista 10y agoSection 8 provides a way to make it easier for students to immigrate by allowing dual-intent.
- CodeSheikh 10y agoYup this seals the deal for this proposal. If you are a student who obtains a degree at a USA college and if you can find a competitive job then "Welcome to the USA". So basically as a foreigner you have to be an above average student.
- matt_wulfeck 10y agoThat's great news. I firmly believe we should be stapling greencards to the back of higher education diplomas.
- kyleschiller 10y agoSets aside 20% of the annual allocation of H-1B visas for small and start-up employers This is great, I was worried with the $130k requirement candidates would be stuck at huge corporations, but 20% is fairly generous.
- jlardinois 10y agoBut will there be enough small companies willing and able to hire H1B workers at that salary level? This might just have the effect of reducing the number of visas that are actually given out, as some of this 20% will remain unused.
- earthtolazlo 10y agoExcept that it's yet another loophole that will be abused to continue business as usual. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13530318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13530318
- rhapsodic 10y agoAs a software developer and a US citizen, this is to my advantage. I hope it quickly becomes the law of the land.
- elastic_church 10y agoyeah man, imagine people with specialized skills having salary increases that once again keep up with housing prices whaaaat?
- CodeSheikh 10y agoHow is this to your advantage? Are you having hard time securing a full-time dev job with a US tech company? Last time I checked, there was more demand and shortage of supply for smart programmers (I have been interviewing a lot). Do you happen to work in a region where there are less tech jobs?
- rhapsodic 10y agoIt's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US, relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages) down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that. To answer your question, I don't have trouble finding or keeping employment. This move will simply drive up my market value. So I'm for it.
- explainthisth 10y agoHow do you figure? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. I'm very unsure about this, but thinking maybe I should hurry and buy a house if this passes.
- rhapsodic 10y ago> You sure about that? Right now, consulting companies spam the lottery with shitty jobs. With the new system favoring quality $130k+ jobs there will be a bigger supply of good H1Bs to compete with. The supply is artificially set by law. The fact that they will cost $130K instead of whatever it was before will make it much easier for me to compete with them. It might also make it economically feasible for US companies to hire US workers who might not have all of the needed skills, and train them. That works for me.
- mavelikara 10y agoReposting my comment from the other thread [1]: --- While TCS, Infosys etc figure prominently in the H-1B debate, I think this new bill does not affect them as much as it is made out to be. The real downside is for staffing firms (popularly known as "desi consulting shops"), mostly run by Indian-Americans. TCS employs 370K+ employees worldwide and had revenue of $16B+ in 2016. They might have gotten 3K H-1Bs each year. If they know how to run projects staffing 370K employees with 3K H-1Bs per year, they will figure out a way to run it with 500. Also, with that kind of revenue, they will pay the $130K if it comes to that. H-1Bs, I suspect, have a power law distribution. TCS, Infosys etc top the list of H-1B visas per year, but there is a long tail of companies which get allotted few visas every year. Some of these in the long tail are high tech firms in real need of skill and are the ones paying appropriately for it (AmaFaceGoodSoft etc). But I think the larger cohort are the staffing shops which bend the rules often and pay low. --- [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13534296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13534296
- tn13 10y ago"desi consulting shops" might even run fake payrolls to bypass(break) the laws. As someone who has seen them closely, it is common practice for them to pay an employee $110K on paper but $60K in real.
- RobertDeNiro 10y agoIsn't that highly illegal?
- praneshp 10y agoHighly illegal and HIGHLY common. When my wife moved here (I uprooted her career because of our marriage), she spoke to a few of these people. It was way easier to get an illegal job, and better green card prospects (don't know why).
- mavelikara 10y agoThings are much better these days with proprietors, HR folks and lawyers of these firms getting jail sentences.
- CodeSheikh 10y agoI am a bit confused about $130,000 limit. A $130,000 salary in NYC is way different than a small town in Mississippi. Should not it be regional average?
- xchaotic 10y agoFWIW, reading this from the other side of the pond (which suddenly got way cheaper), I would not come to NYC or SV for $130k. I can cope much better on much less and I don't have to 'create $130k+" of value every to justify my employment. In other words this bill may work a little too well - even if some companies are willing to pay that much it's no longer that attractive to come over and match those expectations...
- explainthisth 10y agoThe most economically productive businesses are located in the most expensive areas, because they get the highest ROI from hiring top employees. Skilled workers get paid less in MS because the national economy needs skilled workers less in MS.
- tucaz 10y ago"Unless dependent employers compensate their H-1B workers above the required wage level, they must make attestations regarding recruitment and non-displacement of U.S. workers" Does this mean that a company can pay below the 130k if it can prove that it's not possible to hire an American even with higher wages?
- freeone3000 10y agoYes. That's the point of an H-1B visa - to recruit highly-skilled workers when American workers are not available.
- Retric 10y agoYes, the 130k figure does nothing in practice.
- fedeoasi 10y agoAnd yet all the panic portrayed by the press is generated by the 130k figure.
- tn13 10y agoYes. Imagine a school trying to employ a Sanskrit teacher. It is impossible to expect them to pay $130K.
- gopalv 10y agoSection 2. That's what matters if you're an Indian with an I-140 dated 2009, afraid to change his H1B job, despite salary or personnel issues. (Also, ask me about why I'm not starting up). That one section prevents this "you can quit anytime you feel like" threat held over Indian employees by employers, because an I-140 for the employee is issued to the employer. An employee with mobility between employers is no longer forcing the wages down. That does not prevent a company from sending the same job to India, because it suddenly costs so much, but it does prevent the lowering of wages due to people putting up with abusive or near-illegal employment practices. This is good for the local economy and basically makes an "outsourcing" employee irresponsible if she doesn't jump to an american firm who will do her paperwork right. Raising the salaries all around. (delete mini-rant about living expenses and salaries - increased pay all around isn't always what it's cracked up to be) That section alone, shifts the balance of power between an employer and an H1b holder.
- rhapsodic 10y agoI was a free market libertarian until about last week, when I finally got sick of being lectured and called names by tech billionaires. Now I'm for anything that helps me financially, and hurts these people. If the H1B program were abolished entirely, my compensation would shoot up there with doctors' and lawyers', and the tech billionaires would be slightly less rich. This measure doesn't go that far, but it's a step in that direction.
- nathantotten 10y agoI think you drastically overestimate how much doctors and layers make. Just like most jobs, the highest salaries are the exception.
- ganeshkrishnan 10y agoNo, your compensation won't shoot up. Tech companies will move to cheaper areas like Philippines, Eastern Europe etc. India is already becoming expensive and companies like Infosys have already moved to China: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/ites/infosys-to-open-first-overseas-campus-in-china/articleshow/47308652.cms http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/ites/infosys-to-ope... https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703509104576328812287021614 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703509104576328... (Infosys China Plans to Triple Staff to 10,000) It's harder to outsource doctors because of multitude of reasons (Healthcare is country dependent, patients can't be transported, medicines are different in each country) I am on H1b and I have noticed the body shops too, even worked for one. Bills like this doesn't address the core issue of H1b abuse and only exacerbates the issues.
- spapin 10y agoIt also seem likely that opening an office outside of the USA may become an interesting alternative. Then your wage and your job may be at risk. If impact to you is how you evaluate things, it would seem like there's room for worries.
- rhapsodic 10y ago> It also seem likely that opening an office outside of the USA may become an interesting alternative. Then your wage and your job may be at risk. If impact to you is how you evaluate things, it would seem like there's room for worries. There are a lot of people on this thread who don't understand how the law of supply and demand works.
- fusion_guru 10y agoEveryone seems to think that H1-B visas are just for tech employees. What about other professional service fields like RN's in private and public or community clinics, doctors e.t.c. I doubt all eligible jobs can pay the proposed amount. Also what about geographic cost of living adjustment? If anything this bill concentrates high wages in the pasts and maybe Chicago. I don't know how this changes the equation for middle America.
- sparky_ 10y agoIs this in fact the same H-1B bill that is likely to pass congress and the President's signature? I ask as the sponsor of the bill, Rep. Lofgren, is the (Democratic) congresswoman for downtown San Jose.
- tarikjn 10y agoThere are some good things in there, in particular 6. MARKET-BASED H-1B VISA ALLOCATION. However what is missing is a month by month allocation, which would be much more competitive than the existing yearly, April 1st allocation. If you are in Zoe Lofgren's district, please send her comments here: https://lofgren.house.gov/contact/ https://lofgren.house.gov/contact/