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Interestingly it was specifically leftist thinkers and personalities who have been against globalization as promoted by free-market capitalism. That might seems

by rdtsc 10y ago

Interestingly it was specifically leftist thinkers and personalities who have been against globalization as promoted by free-market capitalism. That might seems shocking in light of recent election rhetoric. https://chomsky.info/secrets03/ https://chomsky.info/secrets03/ --- About half of what are called US exports to Mexico are intrafirm transfers of this sort. They don’t enter the Mexican market, and there’s no meaningful sense in which they’re exports to Mexico. Still, that’s called "trade." --- This interview by Sanders on Vox is also very illustrative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vOKKMipSA&t=352 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vOKKMipSA&t=352 --- Bernie Sanders: Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal. Ezra Klein: Really? Bernie Sanders: Of course. That's a right-wing proposal, which says essentially there is no United States. ... --- It is sad really. People keep calling those who voted and promoted Hillary "the left" but there is not much "left" left in there. Trump apparently took the traditional bread-and-butter leftist issues NAFTA and jobs and ran with it. Whether he cares for those things or not, at least he picked them up. So the Democrats ended up with identity politics, mixed with corporatism. They are trying to appeal to Occupy Wall St. and also give $200k speeches to Wall St., they are for gay rights but also take donations from states which throw gays off of buildings. It was rather upsetting when during the nightclub shooting in Orlando, Hillary's campaign and the rest of the media moved quickly to suppress the news because it involved a what apparently an Islamic Terrorist attack. I know a few gay people who never quite got over that and never forgot it... Moreover on identity politics and the left. Has Marx never wrote anything about labeling groups correctly so they don't get offended? It was always about being very offended, specifically offending the ownership class and not just offending them, but annihilating them. Maybe one good thing about Trump winning is that it cleared the table for creation of a new political party. A more authentic left party. Those people who followed Sanders what happened to them? There such tremendous energy there. Is it wasted on boycotting Uber, and re-tweeting the same things over and over... I am afraid it is.

the_duke 10y ago
Just a few years back, it was the Conservative parties (not just the US) advocating Globalisation/free trade/free markets yadda yadda, and the liberals opposing the above because of labour exploitation, global supply chains bad for the environment... But memories fade quickly... Then again, Trump's positions are really not so representative of the establishment republicans.
etangent 10y ago
A possible semi-Marxian explanation is that what we call leftism has always consisted of two tendencies: a popular one and an elitist one. The alliance between the two is not natural per se but only held together while the elitist tendency did not have access to the capital. What happened during the late 20th and the early 21st century is that increased demand for intellectual labor due to informatization had given the elitist tendency access to capital, which then led to breaking apart of the old alliance.
martincmartin 10y ago
The Economist has previously mused that the old distinction between "left" and "right" isn't as relevant any more. Instead, the extreemes on both the left and right have a lot in common, they're both "drawbridge up:" don't like free trade or open borders.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Authoritarians associated (at least by rhetoric) with both the left (e.g., Leninist) and right (e.g., Fascist) aren't exactly new, and they look pretty similar in practice whatever the distinctions in their rhetoric. But, even so, the left and right opposition to neoliberal trade is not the same (the opponents on the left tends to favor trade, but oppose trade without common labor and environmental protections, those on the right tend to oppose both trade and labor and environmental protections.) Similarly, while almost everyone opposes "open borders" (an idea with narrow support which is mostly heard as a right-wing label for any immigration that they oppose), the left and right tend to be very far apart on what they prefer as the direction of change from status quo immigration policies.
- kmicklas 10y ago
  That's classic horseshoe theory nonsense.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    Surely you can explain more than that

by rdtsc 10y ago

the_duke 10y ago

Just a few years back, it was the Conservative parties (not just the US) advocating Globalisation/free trade/free markets yadda yadda, and the liberals opposing the above because of labour exploitation, global supply chains bad for the environment... But memories fade quickly... Then again, Trump's positions are really not so representative of the establishment republicans.

etangent 10y ago

A possible semi-Marxian explanation is that what we call leftism has always consisted of two tendencies: a popular one and an elitist one. The alliance between the two is not natural per se but only held together while the elitist tendency did not have access to the capital. What happened during the late 20th and the early 21st century is that increased demand for intellectual labor due to informatization had given the elitist tendency access to capital, which then led to breaking apart of the old alliance.

martincmartin 10y ago

The Economist has previously mused that the old distinction between "left" and "right" isn't as relevant any more. Instead, the extreemes on both the left and right have a lot in common, they're both "drawbridge up:" don't like free trade or open borders.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Authoritarians associated (at least by rhetoric) with both the left (e.g., Leninist) and right (e.g., Fascist) aren't exactly new, and they look pretty similar in practice whatever the distinctions in their rhetoric. But, even so, the left and right opposition to neoliberal trade is not the same (the opponents on the left tends to favor trade, but oppose trade without common labor and environmental protections, those on the right tend to oppose both trade and labor and environmental protections.) Similarly, while almost everyone opposes "open borders" (an idea with narrow support which is mostly heard as a right-wing label for any immigration that they oppose), the left and right tend to be very far apart on what they prefer as the direction of change from status quo immigration policies.
kmicklas 10y ago
That's classic horseshoe theory nonsense.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  Surely you can explain more than that