5 ms·

I don't want to get too into this, but are you saying that calling the immigration order "Muslim Ban" is a false truth? I am really curious on why you think thi

by Kevin_S 10y ago

I don't want to get too into this, but are you saying that calling the immigration order "Muslim Ban" is a false truth? I am really curious on why you think this?

alva 10y ago
Yeah me either as it is off topic. But in response, it is not a ban on people of one religion entering the country. It is a ban on people from 7 terror prone countries entering. For the passing news consumer, it would be very easy to be led to believe that Muslims are banned from entering the US.
- goodJobWalrus 10y ago
  Does the fact that Trump himself is calling it the "Muslim ban"change anything for you?
- pgodzin 10y ago
  A ban on 7 Muslim-majority countries with exceptions for minority religions. In addition: "I’ll tell you the whole history of it: When he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said on Fox News. "He called me up, he said, ‘Put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally.’" source: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t...
  - alva 10y ago
    Does any of that change the hard facts that what was enacted is not a ban on people coming to the US based on their religion. Because that is the pure fact.
    - kmnc 10y ago
      So we should just keep dismissing his obvious intentions because he hasn't fully executed on them at this precise moment? You can keep explaining away his actions based on technicalities all you want, but his intentions are clear to most people in the US and around the world.
      - alva 10y ago
        We should absolutely not be dismissing his seeming intentions. There should be massive focus on this. But that does not excuse conflating opinion/analysis with fact. Accurate reporting of the news is so tremendously important. Every single time that the mainstream media is called out for presenting opinion as fact, the public lose a tiny bit more faith in the veracity of the media. The Trump administration media strategy is so crystal clear I do not know why there is any confusing about what is going on. Every time a mainstream publication presents an analysis/opinion as fact, when it turns out Not to be true, Trump admin. calls them out on it and erodes trust further. This is their strategy. Keep the mainstream media falling into this trap and erode public confidence. I think the ONLY way to counteract this very effective strategy is to clearly separate the two. Report on the facts as they are. Also provide analysis and opinion that is clearly marked as such. This is so damn important, regardless of where you stand on the issue discussed.
  - masonic 10y ago
    with exceptions for minority religions. That appears to be totally false. Where do you get that? https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreig...
    - pgodzin 10y ago
      "(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-musli...
      - masonic 10y ago
        Again disproves your claim about "A ban on 7 Muslim-majority countries with exceptions for minority religions". The "ban" is religion-blind. In the future, as refugee claims processing resumes, minorities can be prioritized; it does not "ban" with religion-specific exclusions altogether... now, or then.
        pgodzin 10y ago
        You're right, sorry - quoted the wrong passage. This is the one I meant to: "(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest — including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution"
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by Kevin_S 10y ago

I don't want to get too into this, but are you saying that calling the immigration order "Muslim Ban" is a false truth? I am really curious on why you think this?

alva 10y ago

Yeah me either as it is off topic. But in response, it is not a ban on people of one religion entering the country. It is a ban on people from 7 terror prone countries entering. For the passing news consumer, it would be very easy to be led to believe that Muslims are banned from entering the US.

goodJobWalrus 10y ago
Does the fact that Trump himself is calling it the "Muslim ban"change anything for you?
pgodzin 10y ago
A ban on 7 Muslim-majority countries with exceptions for minority religions. In addition: "I’ll tell you the whole history of it: When he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said on Fox News. "He called me up, he said, ‘Put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally.’" source: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t...
- alva 10y ago
  Does any of that change the hard facts that what was enacted is not a ban on people coming to the US based on their religion. Because that is the pure fact.
  - kmnc 10y ago
    So we should just keep dismissing his obvious intentions because he hasn't fully executed on them at this precise moment? You can keep explaining away his actions based on technicalities all you want, but his intentions are clear to most people in the US and around the world.
    - alva 10y ago
      We should absolutely not be dismissing his seeming intentions. There should be massive focus on this. But that does not excuse conflating opinion/analysis with fact. Accurate reporting of the news is so tremendously important. Every single time that the mainstream media is called out for presenting opinion as fact, the public lose a tiny bit more faith in the veracity of the media. The Trump administration media strategy is so crystal clear I do not know why there is any confusing about what is going on. Every time a mainstream publication presents an analysis/opinion as fact, when it turns out Not to be true, Trump admin. calls them out on it and erodes trust further. This is their strategy. Keep the mainstream media falling into this trap and erode public confidence. I think the ONLY way to counteract this very effective strategy is to clearly separate the two. Report on the facts as they are. Also provide analysis and opinion that is clearly marked as such. This is so damn important, regardless of where you stand on the issue discussed.
- masonic 10y ago
  with exceptions for minority religions. That appears to be totally false. Where do you get that? https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/protecting-nation-foreig...
  - pgodzin 10y ago
    "(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-musli...
    - masonic 10y ago
      Again disproves your claim about "A ban on 7 Muslim-majority countries with exceptions for minority religions". The "ban" is religion-blind. In the future, as refugee claims processing resumes, minorities can be prioritized; it does not "ban" with religion-specific exclusions altogether... now, or then.
      - pgodzin 10y ago
        You're right, sorry - quoted the wrong passage. This is the one I meant to: "(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest — including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution"

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]