4 ms·

In that case, I fully expect to see continued activity on this front even after the next Democratic adminstration and congress continues the Bush-Obama-Trump pr

by sidlls 10y ago

In that case, I fully expect to see continued activity on this front even after the next Democratic adminstration and congress continues the Bush-Obama-Trump programs that are (finally) meeting resistance. I won't hold my breath waiting for that, though. Usually what happens is that when one's favored party regains power the criticism suddenly disappears.

davidw 10y ago
The ACLU is not a partisan group. They've criticized Obama where they felt it appropriate: https://action.aclu.org/secure/president_obama_deportations https://action.aclu.org/secure/president_obama_deportations
- sidlls 10y ago
  I wasn't calling out the ACLU. I am rather skeptical of the commitment of certain folks who are just now finding their voice. This is from long experience, at least on the left end of the pond, where the mainstream Democratic partisans attempt to shout down any protest when Democratic politicians do something but encourage it when Republicans do equivalent things.
  - davidw 10y ago
    > I am rather skeptical of the commitment of certain folks who are just now finding their voice. Who cares. "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now".
    - sidlls 10y ago
      As with most such sayings their relevance isn't universal. You should care, as should anyone who is aligned with these protestors' views. That's because if (or when, if history is a guide) the protests subside because "we elected not-Trump/Democrat-X/whatever", the gains will be eroded or erased as Trump's policies are continued by the new "savior."
      - mejari 10y ago
        Well, we're not there now, so the best we can do is do what we can do now, and promise ourselves to do what we can then. Maybe we will, maybe we'll fail, but there's literally nothing we can do about that now, so why let cynicism about a potential future erode our resolve to do what is right now?
        sidlls 10y ago
        It isn't cynicism about a potential future. It's recognition of a pattern that has played out time and again. This isn't new or uncharted territory here.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      The problem is that as soon as a democrat gets elected to president, these "supporters" will disappear because it is "their" candidate bombing brown people or attacking your rights.
chc 10y ago
Yes, Obama did some bad stuff, and organizations like the ACLU and EFF did push back on it — you can Google "ACLU slams Obama" for a few examples — but Trump is shaping up to be way past the norm, so you shouldn't expect just a normal amount of resistance.
- sidlls 10y ago
  The only thing "past the norm" here is that Trump isn't hiding behind "the process" or rhetoric. All of the stuff Trump is doing had been either set up by or done, before, by past administrations. It's just that there hasn't been this level of scrutiny or opposition to it.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    No, much of it hasn't been done by past administrations, which is why whenever someone tries to trot out a supposed concrete example, it's usually a wildly different act than the one Trump did that is supposedly similar to, either in substance or relevant context or, most often, both.
    - sidlls 10y ago
      You mean like the raid in which a SEAL died that wasn't the same policy and enforcement mechanism that Bush and Obama used? Some examples fit your description. Not all.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        My description is a rebuttal of an "all" claim, and is expressly a "much" not an "all" claim itself. So that not all Trump acts.meet it is acknowledged from the beginning and not relevant to its accuracy or its point. The things that are receiving the heavy protests, however, are the things that do match it.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
You need to stop, just for a second, and not look at this as a Democrat/Republican thing. When you have tens of thousands of people protesting it in countries outside the US (massive protests in London and around the UK yesterday) it's clearly beyond partisan politics and just about the issue. It's not red vs blue and it's certainly not left vs right considering our right is only about as right as your left.
- sidlls 10y ago
  I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, and don't view it through that lense. I'm viewing this (support for the ACLU) with a skeptical eye, the same way I'd view a Trump protest started by Hillary campaign staffers.

by sidlls 10y ago

davidw 10y ago

The ACLU is not a partisan group. They've criticized Obama where they felt it appropriate: https://action.aclu.org/secure/president_obama_deportations https://action.aclu.org/secure/president_obama_deportations

sidlls 10y ago
I wasn't calling out the ACLU. I am rather skeptical of the commitment of certain folks who are just now finding their voice. This is from long experience, at least on the left end of the pond, where the mainstream Democratic partisans attempt to shout down any protest when Democratic politicians do something but encourage it when Republicans do equivalent things.
- davidw 10y ago
  > I am rather skeptical of the commitment of certain folks who are just now finding their voice. Who cares. "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now".
  - sidlls 10y ago
    As with most such sayings their relevance isn't universal. You should care, as should anyone who is aligned with these protestors' views. That's because if (or when, if history is a guide) the protests subside because "we elected not-Trump/Democrat-X/whatever", the gains will be eroded or erased as Trump's policies are continued by the new "savior."
    - mejari 10y ago
      Well, we're not there now, so the best we can do is do what we can do now, and promise ourselves to do what we can then. Maybe we will, maybe we'll fail, but there's literally nothing we can do about that now, so why let cynicism about a potential future erode our resolve to do what is right now?
      - sidlls 10y ago
        It isn't cynicism about a potential future. It's recognition of a pattern that has played out time and again. This isn't new or uncharted territory here.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    The problem is that as soon as a democrat gets elected to president, these "supporters" will disappear because it is "their" candidate bombing brown people or attacking your rights.

chc 10y ago

Yes, Obama did some bad stuff, and organizations like the ACLU and EFF did push back on it — you can Google "ACLU slams Obama" for a few examples — but Trump is shaping up to be way past the norm, so you shouldn't expect just a normal amount of resistance.

sidlls 10y ago
The only thing "past the norm" here is that Trump isn't hiding behind "the process" or rhetoric. All of the stuff Trump is doing had been either set up by or done, before, by past administrations. It's just that there hasn't been this level of scrutiny or opposition to it.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  No, much of it hasn't been done by past administrations, which is why whenever someone tries to trot out a supposed concrete example, it's usually a wildly different act than the one Trump did that is supposedly similar to, either in substance or relevant context or, most often, both.
  - sidlls 10y ago
    You mean like the raid in which a SEAL died that wasn't the same policy and enforcement mechanism that Bush and Obama used? Some examples fit your description. Not all.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      My description is a rebuttal of an "all" claim, and is expressly a "much" not an "all" claim itself. So that not all Trump acts.meet it is acknowledged from the beginning and not relevant to its accuracy or its point. The things that are receiving the heavy protests, however, are the things that do match it.

k-mcgrady 10y ago

You need to stop, just for a second, and not look at this as a Democrat/Republican thing. When you have tens of thousands of people protesting it in countries outside the US (massive protests in London and around the UK yesterday) it's clearly beyond partisan politics and just about the issue. It's not red vs blue and it's certainly not left vs right considering our right is only about as right as your left.

sidlls 10y ago
I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican, and don't view it through that lense. I'm viewing this (support for the ACLU) with a skeptical eye, the same way I'd view a Trump protest started by Hillary campaign staffers.