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I used to be an ACLU supporter, but stopped after their main objectives switched to more of what I describe as matters of feelings, E.g., whether a man who iden

I used to be an ACLU supporter, but stopped after their main objectives switched to more of what I describe as matters of feelings, E.g., whether a man who identifies as a women can use a women's bathroom in Georgia, or whether the term man or women can ever be used at all. In my opinion most the ACLU LGBT agenda has been a useless war on words, yet it's taking on a greater and greater importance in the organization. Meanwhile constitutionally-guaranteed personal liberties, such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure, seemed to be getting less and less important. Instead I've switched to funding the EFF, which really does seem at the forefront of constitutional freedoms because it's operating in an area where they are seriously under attack. In the grand scheme of things the EFF seems to be doing much more important and historically relevant work.

tghw 10y ago
That's hardly their main focus. Go to https://www.aclu.org/ https://www.aclu.org/ and click Issues. LGBT Rights are just one of 18 top level issues (many broken down into many more related issues). I love the EFF, but they don't cover voting rights, disability rights, immigration rights, racial justice, etc.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  They have a lot of pokers in the civil liberty fire, and I really do wish them success in all of them. However as you (and probably many others here) are now supporters you'll start receiving the newsletter which outlines your local chapters focus, recent successes, and new battles. You can make a decision to continue supporting the organization or switch to something you believe personally is more important.
- cabalamat 10y ago
  > racial justice According to https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-action https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-actio... they support discrimination against white people: > Affirmative action is one of the most effective tools for redressing the injustices caused by our nation’s historic discrimination against people of color and women, and for leveling what has long been an uneven playing field. This is bad for two reasons 1. is is immoral in principle 2. it is bad politics; attitudes like this make it more likely that Trump will win a 2nd term
  - coldpie 10y ago
    Affirmative action is not discrimination against white people.
    - lol214365 10y ago
      Preferring non-whites to whites is not discrimination?
      - igor47 10y ago
        Blacks make up almost 13% of the US population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_Unit...) but only about 3% of the population in top-tier schools in the US (http://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2015/12/20/diversity-at-top-colleges-heres-the-proof/#34c4870c5e5b http://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2015/12/20/diversity-at...). Now, to me, this doesn't really seem like preferring non-whites to whites. Why does it seem that way to you?
        belorn 10y ago
        Top-tier schools is a proxy for family wealth and African Americans do not hold 13% of the US wealth. If the state stopped all social security, health care, and other benefits to white people, it would also bring similar result as affirmative action. Would it make the world a better place and more equal opportunity?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
resfirestar 10y ago
Would it be your "feelings" telling you that the ACLU, by standing up for transgender rights, has pushed aside the fight for the personal liberties that "normal" people get to exercise? Because most of the cases my local ACLU is taking on are the classic standing up to police and ensuring that poor kids get an equal education. https://www.aclusocal.org/en/cases https://www.aclusocal.org/en/cases
rpearl 10y ago
Eh, I'm gonna pick on it. "A man who identifies as a woman" is a disingenuous statement--it is leading with some sort of made up notion of what their gender should be ("a man who..."), which is a false framing in the first place. Transgender women are women. They are not men with a qualifier. Moving on: transgender bathroom rights matter. Access to public bathrooms is necessary for access to public spaces and is furthermore generally an indicator of free unencumbered movement in public. Therefore, state-sponsored humiliation tactics are indicating a stance that trans people are not welcome in a public space. This is problematic, and furthermore is certainly a matter of civil liberty. The ACLU should take those cases and it's important to stand up against steps to marginalize and "other" groups of people. As public space is necessary to exercise certain rights in the constitution, particularly the first amendment, this matters at a very deep level. To give a clear and specific example: a friend of mine is no longer safe visiting his family in North Carolina, as he is trans. He must either choose to violate the law in public to fit in (he passes as a man), or by following the law out himself or put himself at risk. He no longer has the liberty to visit his family like you or I do, without additional--potentially severe--legal or physical risk.
- adrienne 10y ago
  Thank you. Parent comment is transphobic language and it really appalls me that the moderators let this stuff stand all the time around here.
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    Why was my comment transphobic? It seems the common riposte in today's political climate is to use some kind of derogative label if the other person doesn't fit your exact worldview.
    - adrienne 10y ago
      The comment directly above mine clearly explains why your language is transphobic. I'm not gonna explain it again more nicely just because you didn't want to hear it the first time.

tghw 10y ago

That's hardly their main focus. Go to https://www.aclu.org/ https://www.aclu.org/ and click Issues. LGBT Rights are just one of 18 top level issues (many broken down into many more related issues). I love the EFF, but they don't cover voting rights, disability rights, immigration rights, racial justice, etc.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago
They have a lot of pokers in the civil liberty fire, and I really do wish them success in all of them. However as you (and probably many others here) are now supporters you'll start receiving the newsletter which outlines your local chapters focus, recent successes, and new battles. You can make a decision to continue supporting the organization or switch to something you believe personally is more important.
cabalamat 10y ago
> racial justice According to https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-action https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-actio... they support discrimination against white people: > Affirmative action is one of the most effective tools for redressing the injustices caused by our nation’s historic discrimination against people of color and women, and for leveling what has long been an uneven playing field. This is bad for two reasons 1. is is immoral in principle 2. it is bad politics; attitudes like this make it more likely that Trump will win a 2nd term
- coldpie 10y ago
  Affirmative action is not discrimination against white people.
  - lol214365 10y ago
    Preferring non-whites to whites is not discrimination?
    - igor47 10y ago
      Blacks make up almost 13% of the US population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_Unit...) but only about 3% of the population in top-tier schools in the US (http://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2015/12/20/diversity-at-top-colleges-heres-the-proof/#34c4870c5e5b http://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2015/12/20/diversity-at...). Now, to me, this doesn't really seem like preferring non-whites to whites. Why does it seem that way to you?
      - belorn 10y ago
        Top-tier schools is a proxy for family wealth and African Americans do not hold 13% of the US wealth. If the state stopped all social security, health care, and other benefits to white people, it would also bring similar result as affirmative action. Would it make the world a better place and more equal opportunity?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

resfirestar 10y ago

Would it be your "feelings" telling you that the ACLU, by standing up for transgender rights, has pushed aside the fight for the personal liberties that "normal" people get to exercise? Because most of the cases my local ACLU is taking on are the classic standing up to police and ensuring that poor kids get an equal education. https://www.aclusocal.org/en/cases https://www.aclusocal.org/en/cases

rpearl 10y ago

Eh, I'm gonna pick on it. "A man who identifies as a woman" is a disingenuous statement--it is leading with some sort of made up notion of what their gender should be ("a man who..."), which is a false framing in the first place. Transgender women are women. They are not men with a qualifier. Moving on: transgender bathroom rights matter. Access to public bathrooms is necessary for access to public spaces and is furthermore generally an indicator of free unencumbered movement in public. Therefore, state-sponsored humiliation tactics are indicating a stance that trans people are not welcome in a public space. This is problematic, and furthermore is certainly a matter of civil liberty. The ACLU should take those cases and it's important to stand up against steps to marginalize and "other" groups of people. As public space is necessary to exercise certain rights in the constitution, particularly the first amendment, this matters at a very deep level. To give a clear and specific example: a friend of mine is no longer safe visiting his family in North Carolina, as he is trans. He must either choose to violate the law in public to fit in (he passes as a man), or by following the law out himself or put himself at risk. He no longer has the liberty to visit his family like you or I do, without additional--potentially severe--legal or physical risk.

adrienne 10y ago
Thank you. Parent comment is transphobic language and it really appalls me that the moderators let this stuff stand all the time around here.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Why was my comment transphobic? It seems the common riposte in today's political climate is to use some kind of derogative label if the other person doesn't fit your exact worldview.
  - adrienne 10y ago
    The comment directly above mine clearly explains why your language is transphobic. I'm not gonna explain it again more nicely just because you didn't want to hear it the first time.