4 ms·

I don't think academic jobs are covered in this. The current system also has exemptions for academic H1-B workers (no lottery).

hocuspocus 10y ago
Also, hard science PhD students are typically hired on J-1 (when they stay in academia/research) or O-1 visas (if they find a relevant position the industry).
- readhn 10y ago
  After you graduate you have to get h1b to work. Nobody is going to pay straight out of school biologist 130k.
  - hocuspocus 10y ago
    Again, a lot of these people find positions on J-1, O-1, or cap-exempt H-1 visas. Edit: you can downvote me but it'd be nice to explain why at least. I have a hard time understanding how raising the salary requirement for capped H-1B visas will affect core science PhD students.
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    There is no shortage of biologists. Pay and conditions in the life sciences is abysmal. The sausage factory relies on graduates for cheap labour. So if foreign students knew the couldn't even get a poorly paid job after graduating, would they go elsewhere? Would this cause a collapse of the university pyramid scheme? Would labs have to start paying real living wages for staff? Lots less science would get done in the short term. US universities would no longer get the best and the brightest from around the world. The size of departments would plummet. But in a few years the number of graduates wouldn't totally dwarf the number of jobs available. That might not be a bad thing.
    - readhn 10y ago
      Let's hope you are not in a life/death situation later in your life where you get some disease for which treatment could have been available earlier if that foreign student was "allowed" to stay and do the work in the USA... All because of some delusional billionaire who is allowed (by us) to play his real life monopoly game.
      - angry_octet 10y ago
        The lack of graduate jobs in biology is one of the reasons why fewer Americans choose to study in the area, and often rapidly leave the field after graduation, usually with a massive student debt. Its extremely hostile to women, a career break is a career end. Its typical of America's decline in STEM fields. So the system is so fundamentally broken it needs massive re-engineering. I don't think the trumpists have a clue about how to do it, nor care, but their magic 8-ball approach to reform will have an impact.
      - muninn_ 10y ago
        Yeah, if only they came to the USA, received an incredible education, and then went back to where they came from and helped that country find or administer treatments for basic diseases that kill people in other countries.
        arcticbull 10y ago
        received one of the most expensive educations in the world that effectively requires working in a first-world country to pay off after.
        jessaustin 10y ago
        That's something to consider before matriculation. It's just as much a problem for Americans as it is for foreigners, so sympathy might be hard to find...
        10y ago
  - readhn 10y ago
    A lot of people with core science backgrounds are working on h1b visas today in this country. This bill can really screw up a lot of lives.
    - BuckRogers 10y ago
      I'd argue the situation already has. Untold hollowing out of American kid's futures to save a couple bucks on K-12 education and a bit on wages.
      - selimthegrim 10y ago
        In what sense? Why are they entitled to a PhD?
  - TheArcane 10y ago
    O-1 is only awarded to an exceptional few.
    - hocuspocus 10y ago
      In theory it should. In practice, I have anecdotal evidence that makes me believe you mostly need a convincing immigration lawyer.
      - arcticbull 10y ago
        Like any bureaucratic form, you just need to check the requirements boxes. There's spirit and practice. Not a whole lot of them get issued but a lot more than intended, though telling people to abuse an O-1 instead of an H-1B seems to be passing the buck.
  - SeoxyS 10y ago
    You're misunderstanding the immigration system if you think you "need" to be on H-1B. H-1B is just one of many statuses you could get. O-1 is one that is perfectly appropriate for a brilliant PhD. (Source: I am on an O-1)

hocuspocus 10y ago

Also, hard science PhD students are typically hired on J-1 (when they stay in academia/research) or O-1 visas (if they find a relevant position the industry).

readhn 10y ago
After you graduate you have to get h1b to work. Nobody is going to pay straight out of school biologist 130k.
- hocuspocus 10y ago
  Again, a lot of these people find positions on J-1, O-1, or cap-exempt H-1 visas. Edit: you can downvote me but it'd be nice to explain why at least. I have a hard time understanding how raising the salary requirement for capped H-1B visas will affect core science PhD students.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  There is no shortage of biologists. Pay and conditions in the life sciences is abysmal. The sausage factory relies on graduates for cheap labour. So if foreign students knew the couldn't even get a poorly paid job after graduating, would they go elsewhere? Would this cause a collapse of the university pyramid scheme? Would labs have to start paying real living wages for staff? Lots less science would get done in the short term. US universities would no longer get the best and the brightest from around the world. The size of departments would plummet. But in a few years the number of graduates wouldn't totally dwarf the number of jobs available. That might not be a bad thing.
  - readhn 10y ago
    Let's hope you are not in a life/death situation later in your life where you get some disease for which treatment could have been available earlier if that foreign student was "allowed" to stay and do the work in the USA... All because of some delusional billionaire who is allowed (by us) to play his real life monopoly game.
    - angry_octet 10y ago
      The lack of graduate jobs in biology is one of the reasons why fewer Americans choose to study in the area, and often rapidly leave the field after graduation, usually with a massive student debt. Its extremely hostile to women, a career break is a career end. Its typical of America's decline in STEM fields. So the system is so fundamentally broken it needs massive re-engineering. I don't think the trumpists have a clue about how to do it, nor care, but their magic 8-ball approach to reform will have an impact.
    - muninn_ 10y ago
      Yeah, if only they came to the USA, received an incredible education, and then went back to where they came from and helped that country find or administer treatments for basic diseases that kill people in other countries.
      - arcticbull 10y ago
        received one of the most expensive educations in the world that effectively requires working in a first-world country to pay off after.
        jessaustin 10y ago
        That's something to consider before matriculation. It's just as much a problem for Americans as it is for foreigners, so sympathy might be hard to find...
        10y ago
- readhn 10y ago
  A lot of people with core science backgrounds are working on h1b visas today in this country. This bill can really screw up a lot of lives.
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    I'd argue the situation already has. Untold hollowing out of American kid's futures to save a couple bucks on K-12 education and a bit on wages.
    - selimthegrim 10y ago
      In what sense? Why are they entitled to a PhD?
- TheArcane 10y ago
  O-1 is only awarded to an exceptional few.
  - hocuspocus 10y ago
    In theory it should. In practice, I have anecdotal evidence that makes me believe you mostly need a convincing immigration lawyer.
    - arcticbull 10y ago
      Like any bureaucratic form, you just need to check the requirements boxes. There's spirit and practice. Not a whole lot of them get issued but a lot more than intended, though telling people to abuse an O-1 instead of an H-1B seems to be passing the buck.
- SeoxyS 10y ago
  You're misunderstanding the immigration system if you think you "need" to be on H-1B. H-1B is just one of many statuses you could get. O-1 is one that is perfectly appropriate for a brilliant PhD. (Source: I am on an O-1)