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I couldn't care less with Android's fragmentation getting worse, not better. See https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html https://developer.and

by fridek 10y ago

I couldn't care less with Android's fragmentation getting worse, not better. See https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html - less than 1% is on 7.0+ a year after its announcement. My Nexus 5 (2013), fully under control of Google, didn't get even 7.0 (2016). Moto G4 (2016) I bought few months ago is on 6.0 (2015), might get 7.0 (2016) soon-ish. I basically stopped caring about new versions, buying new phones to get the latest, etc. They are not even as exciting as they used to be, feature-wise. edited: Nexus 5 actually got 6.0

josteink 10y ago
I think API-wise the most important improvements were done with Kitkat and the 4.x series. Targetting that will get you pretty much all the users you need. So it's not as bad as when 4.x was new and the majority of users were on 2.x. That said, I agree it's hard to be enthusiastic about a new Android-release these days. It's even harder to find out what new stuff (which isn't tied to US-only offered Google services) which you have in store as a user. On the bright side, that's probably a sign of a previously immature platform finally maturing.
- izacus 10y ago
  Targeting API 19+ (4.4) for most apps is more than realistic and that buys you proper RTL support and rather powerful devices. If you want to push UI to the limits, API 21 (5.0+) will still cover most of the market with great Material and elevation APIs.
cs02rm0 10y ago
It's a mess, isn't it. I'm still on an HTC One M7 (2013) with 5.0. And I'm a software developer who just sticks it on the business. I was all set to get the new Nexus, looking forward to the marginally quicker software upgrades (or even, some software upgrades now they've stopped on EE in the UK) and then they announce the Pixel. With the higher price bracket I can't see it getting the volumes, which means even more fragmentation. I don't want an iPhone, especially with the mess they're making with Macbook Pros but it's looking like the sane option.
- josteink 10y ago
  > I don't want an iPhone, especially with the mess they're making with Macbook Pros but it's looking like the sane option. In case you start seriously considering that option, let me provide you with a story of what to expect. I ditched my Android for an iPhone SE, because clearly no Android-vendor wants to create a small premium-class device which receives software updates and which can be used with one hand. And Apple makes the iPhone SE, so I figured I should put my money where my mouth was. My experience with iPhone is a bit schizofrenic. What works, works really well (especially the camera!), but everywhere on the platform you notice shortcomings and artificial limitations which limits your ability to get things done. It's clearly targetted towards CEOs whose peak complexity-needs are checking their email. Professional/power users who wants to use the phone as a platform for getting things done are completely ignored as far as needs and capabilities go. And don't get me started about the complete lack of quality software in the geek-department (Github, Travis, SSH, IRC, etc). It's a complete fucking wasteland. Right now I'm using all those apps through the web instead. Through Firefox. Which I cannot set as a system-wide default browser. Because no such thing exists. Same for SMS, so now I need to check Signal and the built in messaging app. It's maddening. So right now my iPhone is a device for checking web-pages and email. There's just no apps which covers my professional needs. I know all the iDevice-owners were screaming from the hills how much better apps are on iPhone than on Android, but I just can't see it. At least for me, it's been a downgrade for every app-category I use. So like I said, what works works well enough for me to keep this thing. But at the same time I keep wondering if I should pick up my old Nexus 5X and give it a second chance... So yeah. If you make the switch, and have any sense of geekyness in you, expect the switch to be painful. The grass is definitely not all green.
  - bb101 10y ago
    You may want to consider the Blackberry Mercury when it's released in late February. It can be used with one hand (due to its keyboard) and Blackberry have been excellent in releasing Android security fixes -- sometimes even before Google make them available.
    - bostand 10y ago
qzio 10y ago
From what I can tell, you have to buy a new phone, otherwise you'll be stuck with a device that doesn't get critical security updates. iPhone SE is a somewhat viable option, it's quite new so it will be supported for a while, and doesn't have the big price of either iPhone7 or Pixel. edit: Just want to say that new features at this point is not that interesting IMHO, security updates on the other hand, that is what makes a difference.
EspadaV9 10y ago
Not sure where you got the idea that the Nexus 5 didn't get Android 6. I still have the Nexus 5 and got Android 6. It was also still getting security updates until December last year [0]. Android 7 was only announced in Match last year too, and wasn't released until August, 5 months later, so it's not even been out for 6 months yet. Personally, I've switched to LineageOS which is on Android 7.1 and that is working fine (although I understand that installing ROMs isn't going to work for the vast majority of people). With a Google branded phone getting ROM support is more likely to be supported for those that care about it, otherwise 'normal' people will just get a new phone every 1-2 years when their contract is up for renewal. I don't really agree with this, but 2 years of OS upgrades and 3 years of OS security fixes (from Google for their phones) seems 'okay' and is better than what most other phone manufactures (of Android phones) offer. [0] https://developers.google.com/android/images#hammerheadm4b30z https://developers.google.com/android/images#hammerheadm4b30... (6.0.1 (M4B30Z, Dec 2016))
- fridek 10y ago
  Wow, you are absolutely right. I must have not noticed I got it at some point :|
- kuschku 10y ago
  > I don't really agree with this, but 2 years of OS upgrades and 3 years of OS security fixes (from Google for their phones) seems 'okay' and is better than what most other phone manufactures (of Android phones) offer. Considering 2 years of security and bug fixes post sale, not post launch, is required under EU law (see EU warranty directive, any defect already existing during manufacturing that affects hardware or software has to be fixed for at least 2 years past sale), this isn’t actually that great – this is still in many cases less than the legal minimum.
  - EspadaV9 10y ago
    Sorry, should've said that the security releases are 3 years after release or 18 months from the time they were removed from the Google Store [0]. So as a minimum they get 1 year more than required by EU law. Like I said, I don't really agree with it, but Google do seem a bit above the average. And personally, so long as I can install custom ROMs afterwards, I'm okay with 3 years of official updates. [0]: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...
gabemart 10y ago
Fragmentation robs all joy from maintaining an Android application. The majority of bug reports I get I can't reproduce, because the bug doesn't occur in a simulated version of the same Android version, and I don't own the particular hardware device in question.
- rahulchowdhury 10y ago
  I know that feel :-(
foepys 10y ago
This isn't entirely Google's fault. A lot of smartphones use Qualcomm's baseband chips which require kernel drivers. But Qualcomm refuses to port their driver over to newer kernel and so every device is stuck with a specific kernel version for its lifetime. So you might have Android 7.1 but the kernel is still 3.10 even though the actual kernel in Android 7.1 should be 4.4. This is often (not always) because Qualcomm's driver is only compatible with 3.10 and Qualcomm wants to be paid a lot of money to change this.
- regularfry 10y ago
  Live by the sword, die by the sword. (Users shouldn't have to care that Google made a design decision which puts control over their platform in the hands of a third party like this, in other words)
  - bryanlarsen 10y ago
    Qualcomm used illegal monopolistic practices to establish their dominant position. They're being fined and sued for billions for it but in the meantime the damage is done, we are all suffering.
    - sgift 10y ago
      > Qualcomm used illegal monopolistic practices to establish their dominant position Allegedly. Or did I miss a ruling?
      - bryanlarsen 10y ago
        Final rulings have come down in China and South Korea. Other jurisdictions with active investigations include Europe, Taiwan and the US.
    - regularfry 10y ago
      Is there a reason Apple aren't vulnerable?
- 10y ago
izacus 10y ago
You decided to reward Motorola with money for not updating. Why should "Google care more" about you when you decided to give money to manufacturer which doesn't update software? My Nexus 9 runs 7.1.1. My Nexus 5X runs 7.1.1. My Pixel XL runs 7.1.1. Vote with your wallet or complain instead of giving money to OEMs that screw you.
- CannisterFlux 10y ago
  The Nexus/Pixel devices are expensive and don't have SD card expansion. It'd be nice to have cheap, SD card and updates. I don't think any phone covers all that nowadays.
- fridek 10y ago
  I had Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 5, and both Nexus 7s. I tried really hard to stick to it for exactly your reason, but all those devices stopped getting updates long before they stopped working anyway. Pixel is a ridiculously expensive thing and I don't trust it will get more than just this year's android.

by fridek 10y ago

josteink 10y ago

I think API-wise the most important improvements were done with Kitkat and the 4.x series. Targetting that will get you pretty much all the users you need. So it's not as bad as when 4.x was new and the majority of users were on 2.x. That said, I agree it's hard to be enthusiastic about a new Android-release these days. It's even harder to find out what new stuff (which isn't tied to US-only offered Google services) which you have in store as a user. On the bright side, that's probably a sign of a previously immature platform finally maturing.

izacus 10y ago
Targeting API 19+ (4.4) for most apps is more than realistic and that buys you proper RTL support and rather powerful devices. If you want to push UI to the limits, API 21 (5.0+) will still cover most of the market with great Material and elevation APIs.

cs02rm0 10y ago

It's a mess, isn't it. I'm still on an HTC One M7 (2013) with 5.0. And I'm a software developer who just sticks it on the business. I was all set to get the new Nexus, looking forward to the marginally quicker software upgrades (or even, some software upgrades now they've stopped on EE in the UK) and then they announce the Pixel. With the higher price bracket I can't see it getting the volumes, which means even more fragmentation. I don't want an iPhone, especially with the mess they're making with Macbook Pros but it's looking like the sane option.

josteink 10y ago
> I don't want an iPhone, especially with the mess they're making with Macbook Pros but it's looking like the sane option. In case you start seriously considering that option, let me provide you with a story of what to expect. I ditched my Android for an iPhone SE, because clearly no Android-vendor wants to create a small premium-class device which receives software updates and which can be used with one hand. And Apple makes the iPhone SE, so I figured I should put my money where my mouth was. My experience with iPhone is a bit schizofrenic. What works, works really well (especially the camera!), but everywhere on the platform you notice shortcomings and artificial limitations which limits your ability to get things done. It's clearly targetted towards CEOs whose peak complexity-needs are checking their email. Professional/power users who wants to use the phone as a platform for getting things done are completely ignored as far as needs and capabilities go. And don't get me started about the complete lack of quality software in the geek-department (Github, Travis, SSH, IRC, etc). It's a complete fucking wasteland. Right now I'm using all those apps through the web instead. Through Firefox. Which I cannot set as a system-wide default browser. Because no such thing exists. Same for SMS, so now I need to check Signal and the built in messaging app. It's maddening. So right now my iPhone is a device for checking web-pages and email. There's just no apps which covers my professional needs. I know all the iDevice-owners were screaming from the hills how much better apps are on iPhone than on Android, but I just can't see it. At least for me, it's been a downgrade for every app-category I use. So like I said, what works works well enough for me to keep this thing. But at the same time I keep wondering if I should pick up my old Nexus 5X and give it a second chance... So yeah. If you make the switch, and have any sense of geekyness in you, expect the switch to be painful. The grass is definitely not all green.
- bb101 10y ago
  You may want to consider the Blackberry Mercury when it's released in late February. It can be used with one hand (due to its keyboard) and Blackberry have been excellent in releasing Android security fixes -- sometimes even before Google make them available.
  - bostand 10y ago

qzio 10y ago

From what I can tell, you have to buy a new phone, otherwise you'll be stuck with a device that doesn't get critical security updates. iPhone SE is a somewhat viable option, it's quite new so it will be supported for a while, and doesn't have the big price of either iPhone7 or Pixel. edit: Just want to say that new features at this point is not that interesting IMHO, security updates on the other hand, that is what makes a difference.

EspadaV9 10y ago

Not sure where you got the idea that the Nexus 5 didn't get Android 6. I still have the Nexus 5 and got Android 6. It was also still getting security updates until December last year [0]. Android 7 was only announced in Match last year too, and wasn't released until August, 5 months later, so it's not even been out for 6 months yet. Personally, I've switched to LineageOS which is on Android 7.1 and that is working fine (although I understand that installing ROMs isn't going to work for the vast majority of people). With a Google branded phone getting ROM support is more likely to be supported for those that care about it, otherwise 'normal' people will just get a new phone every 1-2 years when their contract is up for renewal. I don't really agree with this, but 2 years of OS upgrades and 3 years of OS security fixes (from Google for their phones) seems 'okay' and is better than what most other phone manufactures (of Android phones) offer. [0] https://developers.google.com/android/images#hammerheadm4b30z https://developers.google.com/android/images#hammerheadm4b30... (6.0.1 (M4B30Z, Dec 2016))

fridek 10y ago
Wow, you are absolutely right. I must have not noticed I got it at some point :|
kuschku 10y ago
> I don't really agree with this, but 2 years of OS upgrades and 3 years of OS security fixes (from Google for their phones) seems 'okay' and is better than what most other phone manufactures (of Android phones) offer. Considering 2 years of security and bug fixes post sale, not post launch, is required under EU law (see EU warranty directive, any defect already existing during manufacturing that affects hardware or software has to be fixed for at least 2 years past sale), this isn’t actually that great – this is still in many cases less than the legal minimum.
- EspadaV9 10y ago
  Sorry, should've said that the security releases are 3 years after release or 18 months from the time they were removed from the Google Store [0]. So as a minimum they get 1 year more than required by EU law. Like I said, I don't really agree with it, but Google do seem a bit above the average. And personally, so long as I can install custom ROMs afterwards, I'm okay with 3 years of official updates. [0]: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...

gabemart 10y ago

Fragmentation robs all joy from maintaining an Android application. The majority of bug reports I get I can't reproduce, because the bug doesn't occur in a simulated version of the same Android version, and I don't own the particular hardware device in question.

rahulchowdhury 10y ago
I know that feel :-(

foepys 10y ago

This isn't entirely Google's fault. A lot of smartphones use Qualcomm's baseband chips which require kernel drivers. But Qualcomm refuses to port their driver over to newer kernel and so every device is stuck with a specific kernel version for its lifetime. So you might have Android 7.1 but the kernel is still 3.10 even though the actual kernel in Android 7.1 should be 4.4. This is often (not always) because Qualcomm's driver is only compatible with 3.10 and Qualcomm wants to be paid a lot of money to change this.

regularfry 10y ago
Live by the sword, die by the sword. (Users shouldn't have to care that Google made a design decision which puts control over their platform in the hands of a third party like this, in other words)
- bryanlarsen 10y ago
  Qualcomm used illegal monopolistic practices to establish their dominant position. They're being fined and sued for billions for it but in the meantime the damage is done, we are all suffering.
  - sgift 10y ago
    > Qualcomm used illegal monopolistic practices to establish their dominant position Allegedly. Or did I miss a ruling?
    - bryanlarsen 10y ago
      Final rulings have come down in China and South Korea. Other jurisdictions with active investigations include Europe, Taiwan and the US.
  - regularfry 10y ago
    Is there a reason Apple aren't vulnerable?
10y ago

izacus 10y ago

You decided to reward Motorola with money for not updating. Why should "Google care more" about you when you decided to give money to manufacturer which doesn't update software? My Nexus 9 runs 7.1.1. My Nexus 5X runs 7.1.1. My Pixel XL runs 7.1.1. Vote with your wallet or complain instead of giving money to OEMs that screw you.

CannisterFlux 10y ago
The Nexus/Pixel devices are expensive and don't have SD card expansion. It'd be nice to have cheap, SD card and updates. I don't think any phone covers all that nowadays.
fridek 10y ago
I had Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 5, and both Nexus 7s. I tried really hard to stick to it for exactly your reason, but all those devices stopped getting updates long before they stopped working anyway. Pixel is a ridiculously expensive thing and I don't trust it will get more than just this year's android.