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It's lonely to consider the other side these days. Dare to consider Trump's side? You're a fascist. Dare to consider the progressive side? You're a communist

by cderwin 10y ago

It's lonely to consider the other side these days. Dare to consider Trump's side? You're a fascist. Dare to consider the progressive side? You're a communist. It's no wonder nobody does it anymore.

noir_lord 10y ago
Indeed, also considering someones viewpoint doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Its quite reasonable to find it abhorrent, just don't take it as abhorrent because other people to you that it is. I like statistics and politics, I dig into the numbers and the actual reports behind news stories and the agendas are so obvious, I get the reasons why, in the UK newspapers are sold on outrage and worldview confirmation first and second and facts about sixth. I don't believe there was ever a golden age of media but I do think they had more integrity in the past.
- Gusbenz 10y ago
  A bit off topic, but I honestly think Retro Report (sponsored by NYT) is wonderful in that it highlights how often the media misses the mark. Especially in the age of the 24 hour news cycle. Sure, they'll issue retractions and such, but the damage to someone is usually done. Richard Jewell is a case in point. Anyway, it is indeed disheartening that if we consider some other viewpoint or perhaps even sympathise with it how easy it is to be branded an enemy to the other. It's a 'you're with us or against us' mentality that is becoming more and more ingrained.
- Nadya 10y ago
  >I don't believe there was ever a golden age of media but I do think they had more integrity in the past. I disagree. The bullshit was just harder to discover in the past - without internet and 10,000 independent sources stating contrary to whatever the media was trying to peddle. Media's job isn't to educate people. It's to educate people to see things "their" way which is where media bias, however major or slight, comes into play.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    "I disagree. The bullshit was just harder to discover in the past - without internet and 10,000 independent sources stating contrary to whatever the media was trying to peddle." I think it's the opposite. The headlines, style, and bias made the bullshit more obvious in the past. Now, there can be 10,000 "independent" sources peddling the same person's bullshit. Media consolidation means many of the news sources all come from the same few dozen companies that consistently bullshit. False information also travels fast in waves across social media but debunks don't per Facebook. There are also firms specializing in doing this with propaganda teams. It's golden age of media disinformation. Also, with so many sources of low integrity, it's harder than ever for the average person to figure out what's true. Smart people can pull it off for many things but it's a lot of work. More work than many will spend vs turning to favorite channel, station, or friend feed.
    - bradjohnson 10y ago
      >it's harder than ever for the average person to figure out what's true. It's so much easier to find truth backed arguments with the internet, the average person can easily check sources. People are just mostly lazy and willing to let their biases inform what they will accept as true.
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        "People are just mostly lazy and willing to let their biases inform what they will accept as true." Exactly. Combined with easier spread of misinformation, it makes things worse than it was before where easily-misinformed population in voting or demand side has massive influence on our lives.
cgriswald 10y ago
You think that's lonely? Try not choosing a side. I'm both a fascist and a dirty commie because I choose focusing on actions, policies, and outcomes over labels and ideologies. And you can't even talk about actions, policies, or outcomes, because if you get it 'wrong' (regardless of whether you're actually wrong) out come the labels and closed go the ears. Both sides are so busy trying to force their ideologies on all Americans through a tyranny of the majority that they are simply incapable of reason.
- iamatworknow 10y ago
  I got into a discussion on Reddit the other day on the topic of gun control and mentioned that I'm a gun owner who is in favor of some restrictions (like assault weapons bans). The responses were: "how can you exercise this right if you support its infringement?" "you should just give up your guns" "don't expect anyone to stick up for you" "you're a hypocrite who thinks 'screw everyone else because I already got mine.'" That's a microcosm of what discourse is like if you have a moderate opinion these days. There is no middle ground.

by cderwin 10y ago

It's lonely to consider the other side these days. Dare to consider Trump's side? You're a fascist. Dare to consider the progressive side? You're a communist. It's no wonder nobody does it anymore.

noir_lord 10y ago

Indeed, also considering someones viewpoint doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Its quite reasonable to find it abhorrent, just don't take it as abhorrent because other people to you that it is. I like statistics and politics, I dig into the numbers and the actual reports behind news stories and the agendas are so obvious, I get the reasons why, in the UK newspapers are sold on outrage and worldview confirmation first and second and facts about sixth. I don't believe there was ever a golden age of media but I do think they had more integrity in the past.

Gusbenz 10y ago
A bit off topic, but I honestly think Retro Report (sponsored by NYT) is wonderful in that it highlights how often the media misses the mark. Especially in the age of the 24 hour news cycle. Sure, they'll issue retractions and such, but the damage to someone is usually done. Richard Jewell is a case in point. Anyway, it is indeed disheartening that if we consider some other viewpoint or perhaps even sympathise with it how easy it is to be branded an enemy to the other. It's a 'you're with us or against us' mentality that is becoming more and more ingrained.
Nadya 10y ago
>I don't believe there was ever a golden age of media but I do think they had more integrity in the past. I disagree. The bullshit was just harder to discover in the past - without internet and 10,000 independent sources stating contrary to whatever the media was trying to peddle. Media's job isn't to educate people. It's to educate people to see things "their" way which is where media bias, however major or slight, comes into play.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  "I disagree. The bullshit was just harder to discover in the past - without internet and 10,000 independent sources stating contrary to whatever the media was trying to peddle." I think it's the opposite. The headlines, style, and bias made the bullshit more obvious in the past. Now, there can be 10,000 "independent" sources peddling the same person's bullshit. Media consolidation means many of the news sources all come from the same few dozen companies that consistently bullshit. False information also travels fast in waves across social media but debunks don't per Facebook. There are also firms specializing in doing this with propaganda teams. It's golden age of media disinformation. Also, with so many sources of low integrity, it's harder than ever for the average person to figure out what's true. Smart people can pull it off for many things but it's a lot of work. More work than many will spend vs turning to favorite channel, station, or friend feed.
  - bradjohnson 10y ago
    >it's harder than ever for the average person to figure out what's true. It's so much easier to find truth backed arguments with the internet, the average person can easily check sources. People are just mostly lazy and willing to let their biases inform what they will accept as true.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      "People are just mostly lazy and willing to let their biases inform what they will accept as true." Exactly. Combined with easier spread of misinformation, it makes things worse than it was before where easily-misinformed population in voting or demand side has massive influence on our lives.

cgriswald 10y ago

You think that's lonely? Try not choosing a side. I'm both a fascist and a dirty commie because I choose focusing on actions, policies, and outcomes over labels and ideologies. And you can't even talk about actions, policies, or outcomes, because if you get it 'wrong' (regardless of whether you're actually wrong) out come the labels and closed go the ears. Both sides are so busy trying to force their ideologies on all Americans through a tyranny of the majority that they are simply incapable of reason.

iamatworknow 10y ago
I got into a discussion on Reddit the other day on the topic of gun control and mentioned that I'm a gun owner who is in favor of some restrictions (like assault weapons bans). The responses were: "how can you exercise this right if you support its infringement?" "you should just give up your guns" "don't expect anyone to stick up for you" "you're a hypocrite who thinks 'screw everyone else because I already got mine.'" That's a microcosm of what discourse is like if you have a moderate opinion these days. There is no middle ground.