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I made a pretty sophisticated Angular app a few years ago which is still selling and being maintained by other devs on my team. I started helping my friend with
by mrits 10y ago
I made a pretty sophisticated Angular app a few years ago which is still selling and being maintained by other devs on my team. I started helping my friend with a new app and realized I'm already obsolete. Screw frontend development, I'll come back when things settle down.
- sdegutis 10y agoPeople are less and less understanding of the fact that nobody lives in a vacuum and all our actions affect other people. They're stressing individual liberties, which you see in the mainstream political opinion of "if it doesn't directly affect me then why should I care?", and that same guiding principle is also pushing developers to make gigantic changes without any regard to the waves, splashes, or ripples they make.
- k__ 10y agoI have the feeling Angular was fad. I met many people who bet on it, but most of them, even the 'fanboys' didn't seem to be 100% convinced of it. "We panicked multiple times, bit it always turned out we were wrong and just didn't do things the Angular-Way" Ember, for example, is kicking it for a much longer time, even with fewer ppl using it.
- thewhitetulip 10y agoI am using Vue, which is much simpler than Angular. With Angular2, I spent a few weeks and still wasn't able to understand how things are working, contrast that with Vue, I was up and running within one week, migrated my html only app to use AJAX in a matter of a week! https://github.com/thewhitetulip/Tasks-vue https://github.com/thewhitetulip/Tasks-vue Vue.JS is great to use!
- k__ 10y agoSame with React. Tiny API, not much concepts. Even Cycle.js just has a few concepts and is even more flexible than React or Vue. Angular 1&2 feels like someone let loose a Java or C# dev onto JavaScript, who tried to apply all the design patterns™
- thewhitetulip 10y agoI feel Vue is simpler and faster as far as programming is concerned as compared with React.
- k__ 10y agoyes, it's more OOP like the others. which is probably easier to understand for most devs. But I'm currently buying into the FP fad, haha
- thewhitetulip 10y ago:-D I am not in any fad as such, but for some reason I find writing functions better than writing classes, it is faster and more intuitive to write vue-js code than react code. Simple architecture and small API.
- arvinsim 10y agoFunny you should say that since the other person was implying that React apps are usually functional(largely when paired with Redux).
- thewhitetulip 10y agoI was under the impression that functional programming and programming by writing functions are two different things. Also, I might have said it incorrectly, the thing is, Vue has a clean API, you have to hook up lifecycle functions, so all I have to write is a Vue element with six lifecycle functions and one function each for distinct AJAX call. Sorry for the confusion.
- ChristianGeek 10y agoGiven that FP has been around longer than OO, I'm not sure it qualifies as a fad!
- milesrout 10y ago
- shawnmgoulet 10y agoI am enjoying VueJS also and it is the 1st framework I've developed in since starting dev. I measure my skills on how comfortable I am doing whatever it is I am doing. I have to say that I've enjoyed Vue thus far, but I don't have any other framework to compare it to. I also have to say that the Front-End Developer Handbook 2017 looks pretty sweet for anyone in front-end dev right now. But again, I'm only an adolescent at this, what do I know?!?! :)
- thewhitetulip 10y agoMe too, the first JS franework, I am writing an easy to ubderstand tutorial for VueJS, would you be interested?
- shawnmgoulet 10y agoThanks for the offer, but my plate is full right now, sorry.
- overcast 10y agoWhen I started looking at frontend frameworks a couple years ago, I ended up with Vue as well. Just enough functionality for the majority of tasks. Angular was waaaaaaay too complex for most needs. Simple two way data binding is where it's at.
- coding123 10y agoEchoing the same here. I just found Vue a few days ago. Instead of starting with the documented way on their site, I'm going the Typescript with Components route, so I have classes, and typing. Now if I compare all of the frameworks I've been learning lately. Ang2 has a horrible module system that just gets in the way and confuses the crap out of everyone. Vue with Typescript is basically Ang2 without that horrible module system. React's flux model still bothers the crap out of me. Polymer's not on NPM and refuses to see that as the way to win. Polymer's got the BEST router system however. It makes the URL choppable at the component level, not the app level. So you can literally throw in an external component and it can add it's OWN part of the overall URL. I don't know any other framework that can let an external component eat some of the URL if it needs to.
- spankalee 10y agoFor the record, we do not refuse to see npm as the "best way to win", we just have work to do to get there without abandoning out current users. We are currently working on npm support, and have kept the github issue up-to-date with developments.
- awjr 10y agoHonestly I had hoped Angular 2 (with iminent release of 4) would be the holy grail. It took soo long to come out, I dabbled in React and have not looked back. However I'm under no illusions that "this is it". Vue is definitely one I want to explore.
- k__ 10y agoI think Cycle.js is a better Observable framework than Angular 2. But I guess React will be big for the next years, because of FB.
- awjr 10y agoAs with any JS framework, much of what you want to achieve with it, has a lot to do with the number of developers building packages to make things easier. There is a lot going for React because a lot of effort is going into the world of React outside of FB.
- ergo14 10y agoLook into polymer, its like vue (vue was inspired by it a lot), and it is really small in size (polyfills IF needed weigh only 20kb). And everything is a component - imo this is what Angular 2.x should have been. You just use pure javascript/web standards html to create your application. All the people that I worked with that used it were really happy with it.
- lacampbell 10y agoI have the feeling Angular was fad. The only client side JS library that doesn't seem to be a fad is jquery. Which now has backlash - maybe that's a sign of success in frontend dev land?
- k__ 10y agoWell, jQuery is rather low level. So this abstraction level seems to be solved. Current frameworks try to solve a higher level and most failed.
- bigmanwalter 10y agoWhat is this "higher abstraction level"? The frameworks are trying to solve components, and they're doing it by introducing a needlessly complex API. All you need is a template library like Handlebars and you're mostly set. For an SPA, a routing library like PageJS (https://visionmedia.github.io/page.js/ https://visionmedia.github.io/page.js/) should have you covered. If you prefer server-side rendering over SPA, just use jQuery-Pjax to get all the speed advantages of an SPA and all the SEO advantages of server-side rendering.
- shaki-dora 10y agoI think "just a template library" would re-render the complete DOM for every update, or require you to manually wire up all components. The "shadow DOM" at the root of React is quite central to its appeal, as it speeds up DOM changes by several orders of magnitude.
- platz 10y agoI am genuinely curious what percentage of web apps are demonstrably affected by "slow DOM updates" of several orders of magnitude. You realize React solves a performance problem that it imposes on itself, due to immutability, right? Pre-react web apps to do attempt to re-render the entire page root on every press of a key. They simply handle events and remove/add/update the specific DOM nodes that are appropriate. remember appendChild() and removeChild() ? These are quite fast.
- FanaHOVA 10y agoI worked with Ember at a YC company a year and a half ago. At the time at least, it was really hard to find good docs about it; I read Ember.js in Action, but it was already mostly outdated since ember-cli was just released. Lots of help ends up being found in random gists or people's blog on page 10 of Google Search. I haven't touched it since last winter though, so not sure how the situation has evolved, but I'm sure that was one of the big entry barriers for Ember.
- k__ 10y agoTrue, but I had this feeling with many frameworks. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I started to read more in the frameworks repos after trying a few of them. I think this is a barrier for most devs, but I think it made me better at coding.
- arvinsim 10y agoThe highest barrier is time. If people need to get things done, do they have time to look into the code?
- gspetr 10y agoWhen I hear the word "way", I reach for my gun. Seriously though, if there has to be a certain "way" of using some technology I can't help but remember Code Complete, that you should always code into a language as opposed to coding in it.
- k__ 10y agoSame here. I did Ember while Angular was "a thing".
- jpalomaki 10y agoFor those thinking about Angular2, I would recommend angular-cli[1] and then going through the tutorials in Angular documentation[2]. Angular-cli because it provides a scaffold for getting started with the project and getting something up and running. The documentation feels pretty good. I like the example app they are building and the documentation format (they provide the full source code for the files right there in the documentation, no need to navigate to somewhere else). [1] https://github.com/angular/angular-cli https://github.com/angular/angular-cli [2] https://angular.io/docs/ts/latest/ https://angular.io/docs/ts/latest/
- MatekCopatek 10y agoThere are multiple ways to look at that. My previous job was on a product that used CoffeeScript and Backbone. As a stereotypical front end hipster, I was worried at first. I thought: "This is really old stuff in JS time. There are shiny new things out there". But I soon saw that while it would be more fun to use a new framework/language, the old ones are _totally fine_. CoffeeScript was last updated a week ago. Backbone was updated several times last year and 1.4 is expected some time soon. There are online communities, there is documentation, there are answered questions on stackoverflow. Yeah, everything feels a bit old, but there won't be breaking changes to the API every few months and that blog post from 2015 that solves your exact problem is still useful! Try looking at it like Angular is a language, not a framework. Sure, there are fancier ones coming out all the time, but that doesn't mean you have to switch every time that happens. The one you know has a bunch of apps built in it, you can still learn about its intricacies and there will be jobs for you for quite some time.
- rkunnamp 10y agoI am the sole front end developer at ReportDash, an online report and dashboard builder. We use backbone, backbone layout manager & coffee script and never ever once regretted the choice. The code is highly organised, thanks to the structure provided by backbone layout manager, and is pretty much readable and extensible. And not even once I felt limited by the framework. The code has got quite complex over time, and I strongly suspect I would have gone mad if I had used a different framework. I used to wonder why the hype over react, vue, angular etc.
- bigmanwalter 10y agoIMO, the hype over them is because Google, Facebook, et al are trying to gain developer mindshare. Their modus operandi is to hoard as much webdev talent as possible to limit the possibility of a startup usurping them. With front-end development being trendy, this buys them massive brand recognition. The technology itself doesn't need to be new, exciting or practical. All you need is sufficient marketing $$$$$$ backing it.
- schlowmo 10y ago
- ChemicalWarfare 10y agoI work for a company with a couple of heavy Angular-based apps. They are pretty easy to support/extend for anyone with a decent level of JS knowledge. The backend API they are talking to and some of the business logic in the apps is kinda tricky but that's not angular's fault per se. The downside is for candidates looking to add a hot shot tech to their resume, Angular isn't all that sexy, but for anyone with JS knowledge willing to spend a couple of days getting up to speed with the app itself (the "tool stack" is minimal - npm, grunt, bower, browserify and since it's an existing app they are learning by example) - this is almost a no-brainer.
- ChristianGeek 10y agoI'm 56 and have been programming for 40 years and counting. I'm paid extremely well for one reason...I've never stopped studying and learning. If you want to base your future on something you already know, you're in the wrong profession.
- tracker1 10y agoThank you... 42 here (at it about 20 years now), and I can't imagine where my career would be today if I stood still at any point. Even in the JS and front-end space alone there's a lot to learn. There's adjacent tech too (various db's, cloud providers, ci/cd, docker, etc). It hasn't stopped or stood still and never will.
- mrits 10y agoI'm not sure having to learn how some kid decided to design a new package manager is what we should be re/learning. If anything it might kill your career as you keep learning basic libraries and never understand the underlyings.
- kbart 10y agoLearning fundamentals and mastering every shiny, new frameworks that will be replaced in few months (years max) are totally different things.