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Completely stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_surges_to_the_top_10_on_apples_app_store/dd3yi66/ https://www.reddit.com/r/techn

Completely stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_surges_to_the_top_10_on_apples_app_store/dd3yi66/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_sur... This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. Uber's Surge system is all automatic--if demand goes way up, and supply doesn't follow suit, prices will increase in the app. Unfortunately, demand goes way up during catastrophes like terror attacks, so Uber has had a few bad instances where, in the wake of a crisis, surge goes up, simply because of the way the system is set up. People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. To address cases like this, Uber put into place a surge shutoff system so that people in these positions aren't charged extra. What happened here was that Uber, in the interest of avoiding another PR disaster, turned off surge to allow protesters (identifying with a cause which their CEO has openly supported) to get to the venue without extra charge. This backfired because that wasn't made clear in their announcement, and they instead came off as strike busters because the NYC taxi firms stupidly chose to express solidarity by shutting down the ability of protesters (not to mention uninvolved travelers) to get to and from the airport via their services. I don't envy Uber--they're in a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't position. It's maddening to see the #deleteUber hashtag get this much traction, especially given that Lyft also continued to operate during the strike, but c'est la vie.

rosser 10y ago
I don't think the pricing is the extent of people's concerns, or even the majority. I'm not a fan of Kalanick, personally, but I was prepared to have been wrong about him when I saw his Facebook post about taking care of the drivers who were stranded by this idiocy. Then, I saw they were taking fares to JFK during the taxi strike — effectively breaking it. To my eyes, and those of many others, that is an ugly repudiation of the gesture. It was one hour. Having someone on the president's Business Council thing take a public stand like that in solidarity with the very industry he's trying to destroy would have sent a powerful message, and pretty cheaply. More to the point, turning off surge pricing hours after the strike — that was announced to last one hour — was over is moot.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Standing in solidarity by preventing the people who are protesting from getting to and from the protest is inane. Without the lipservice they paid, I'd have actually believed the taxi union was rallying against the the protesters.
  - rosser 10y ago
    If you're going there to protest, take the subway. It's not like you've got luggage or anything. And the work stoppage was only against picking up fares, anyway.
- jyrkesh 10y ago
  As someone who is only just finding out about all this, I don't fully understand why the cab drivers stopped picking people up. I think the fact that people were using Uber (and Lyft) to leave the airport means they needed to (which is ESPECIALLY if true if surge was in place for some period of time and people still willingly took it). As poetic as they might think it is, taxi drivers not welcoming people into the country is, practically speaking, very similar to the airports not welcoming people into the country. All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess, maybe with a few kids you've had to endure protecting/managing for a 5-10 hour flight, and the cabs aren't going. I'd be pretty upset at the cabs, even if I stood with the protesters (which I do). (Keep in mind, this would also include people coming from the many other countries not called out in the EO.) Side note: I think it's crazy how quickly so many different SIGNIFICANT articles are hitting #1 on HN and Reddit. The ban, the judicial pushback, the firing...I think I'm all caught up, I sit down at home, throw open HN, and there's an entire sub-story that went down about cabs, Uber, and Lyft sitting at a new #1. It's all too much for me...
  - rosser 10y ago
    > All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess... Then imagine how it must feel to be one of the people affected by the ban. That's the point of the strike: "Oh you think this is inconvenient?"
danso 10y ago
I interpreted the disabling of surge to reduce the incentive for drivers to make an extra buck off of the strike. Does Uber have the ability to nullify an area temporarily so that pickups can't be made? I mean, obviously, it's technically possible, as they set up special zones for airports. But I wonder if they have app behavior to handle a situation in which they need to tell users that pickups are temporarily disabled in an area on an impromptu basis.
- rosser 10y ago
  I have a friend at Uber. We have had conversations involving the word "geofencing".
- prostoalex 10y ago
  They did it when they were negotiating their license with some airports. Back in the days LAX was geo-fenced and you had to take a shuttle to a random hotel to get a pick-up. As soon as their licensing (and proper pick-up spots) were up, LAX went live in the app.
debt 10y ago
How do you know Surge is automatic?
visarga 10y ago
> People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. They could collect an extra few cents from normal fares and store it to compensate drivers during peak time, without fluctuating the fare price for customers. It would work like insurance, and have the same effect with surge pricing while not generating bad PR.
- bovik 10y ago
  how does that make more drivers come to a specific place/time where demand is outstripping supply?
  - visarga 10y ago
    By paying drivers more. Surge pricing would work only for drivers, and be averaged out for customers so they don't see a change in rates. It would encourage more people to use Uber, that are turned off by surge pricing. But maybe Uber doesn't want to have them as clients during surges, depends on the ability to scale to demand.
- hueving 10y ago
  So you make riders that intentionally ride during off times subsidize riders that want to go home during peak times. Pretty lame solution if you ask me. The thing that I like about dynamic pricing is that it forces people to think about what they are doing in a broader context. "maybe it's selfish of me to expect a $3 ride home at 1AM on Jan 1st"
  - visarga 10y ago
    Yes, if your main concern is to protect Uber against surges, you're right. But customers also perceive this as an attempt to extract more money from them when they are in a bad position, such as during a crisis. Why not take the "insurance policy" style and average out these surges?
    - 10y ago
alkonaut 10y ago
> This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. For me it wasn't the bad messaging around the JFK thing, it was that this incident brought focus to the fact that Uber had earlier expressed sympathy for Trump. This is more than enough for me to switch my business to a competitor. I believe this might have been the case for others too. They had simply been closet Trump supporters in my view, but suddenly they were called out as such.

rosser 10y ago

I don't think the pricing is the extent of people's concerns, or even the majority. I'm not a fan of Kalanick, personally, but I was prepared to have been wrong about him when I saw his Facebook post about taking care of the drivers who were stranded by this idiocy. Then, I saw they were taking fares to JFK during the taxi strike — effectively breaking it. To my eyes, and those of many others, that is an ugly repudiation of the gesture. It was one hour. Having someone on the president's Business Council thing take a public stand like that in solidarity with the very industry he's trying to destroy would have sent a powerful message, and pretty cheaply. More to the point, turning off surge pricing hours after the strike — that was announced to last one hour — was over is moot.

true_religion 10y ago
Standing in solidarity by preventing the people who are protesting from getting to and from the protest is inane. Without the lipservice they paid, I'd have actually believed the taxi union was rallying against the the protesters.
- rosser 10y ago
  If you're going there to protest, take the subway. It's not like you've got luggage or anything. And the work stoppage was only against picking up fares, anyway.
jyrkesh 10y ago
As someone who is only just finding out about all this, I don't fully understand why the cab drivers stopped picking people up. I think the fact that people were using Uber (and Lyft) to leave the airport means they needed to (which is ESPECIALLY if true if surge was in place for some period of time and people still willingly took it). As poetic as they might think it is, taxi drivers not welcoming people into the country is, practically speaking, very similar to the airports not welcoming people into the country. All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess, maybe with a few kids you've had to endure protecting/managing for a 5-10 hour flight, and the cabs aren't going. I'd be pretty upset at the cabs, even if I stood with the protesters (which I do). (Keep in mind, this would also include people coming from the many other countries not called out in the EO.) Side note: I think it's crazy how quickly so many different SIGNIFICANT articles are hitting #1 on HN and Reddit. The ban, the judicial pushback, the firing...I think I'm all caught up, I sit down at home, throw open HN, and there's an entire sub-story that went down about cabs, Uber, and Lyft sitting at a new #1. It's all too much for me...
- rosser 10y ago
  > All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess... Then imagine how it must feel to be one of the people affected by the ban. That's the point of the strike: "Oh you think this is inconvenient?"

danso 10y ago

I interpreted the disabling of surge to reduce the incentive for drivers to make an extra buck off of the strike. Does Uber have the ability to nullify an area temporarily so that pickups can't be made? I mean, obviously, it's technically possible, as they set up special zones for airports. But I wonder if they have app behavior to handle a situation in which they need to tell users that pickups are temporarily disabled in an area on an impromptu basis.

rosser 10y ago
I have a friend at Uber. We have had conversations involving the word "geofencing".
prostoalex 10y ago
They did it when they were negotiating their license with some airports. Back in the days LAX was geo-fenced and you had to take a shuttle to a random hotel to get a pick-up. As soon as their licensing (and proper pick-up spots) were up, LAX went live in the app.

debt 10y ago

How do you know Surge is automatic?

visarga 10y ago

> People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. They could collect an extra few cents from normal fares and store it to compensate drivers during peak time, without fluctuating the fare price for customers. It would work like insurance, and have the same effect with surge pricing while not generating bad PR.

bovik 10y ago
how does that make more drivers come to a specific place/time where demand is outstripping supply?
- visarga 10y ago
  By paying drivers more. Surge pricing would work only for drivers, and be averaged out for customers so they don't see a change in rates. It would encourage more people to use Uber, that are turned off by surge pricing. But maybe Uber doesn't want to have them as clients during surges, depends on the ability to scale to demand.
hueving 10y ago
So you make riders that intentionally ride during off times subsidize riders that want to go home during peak times. Pretty lame solution if you ask me. The thing that I like about dynamic pricing is that it forces people to think about what they are doing in a broader context. "maybe it's selfish of me to expect a $3 ride home at 1AM on Jan 1st"
- visarga 10y ago
  Yes, if your main concern is to protect Uber against surges, you're right. But customers also perceive this as an attempt to extract more money from them when they are in a bad position, such as during a crisis. Why not take the "insurance policy" style and average out these surges?
  - 10y ago

alkonaut 10y ago

> This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. For me it wasn't the bad messaging around the JFK thing, it was that this incident brought focus to the fact that Uber had earlier expressed sympathy for Trump. This is more than enough for me to switch my business to a competitor. I believe this might have been the case for others too. They had simply been closet Trump supporters in my view, but suddenly they were called out as such.