31 ms·

Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “DeleteUber” campaign

675 points by sethbannon 10y ago

some1else 10y ago
Twitter's absurd character limit played a part in this
MaxLeiter 10y ago
Completely stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_surges_to_the_top_10_on_apples_app_store/dd3yi66/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_sur... This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. Uber's Surge system is all automatic--if demand goes way up, and supply doesn't follow suit, prices will increase in the app. Unfortunately, demand goes way up during catastrophes like terror attacks, so Uber has had a few bad instances where, in the wake of a crisis, surge goes up, simply because of the way the system is set up. People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. To address cases like this, Uber put into place a surge shutoff system so that people in these positions aren't charged extra. What happened here was that Uber, in the interest of avoiding another PR disaster, turned off surge to allow protesters (identifying with a cause which their CEO has openly supported) to get to the venue without extra charge. This backfired because that wasn't made clear in their announcement, and they instead came off as strike busters because the NYC taxi firms stupidly chose to express solidarity by shutting down the ability of protesters (not to mention uninvolved travelers) to get to and from the airport via their services. I don't envy Uber--they're in a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't position. It's maddening to see the #deleteUber hashtag get this much traction, especially given that Lyft also continued to operate during the strike, but c'est la vie.
- rosser 10y ago
  I don't think the pricing is the extent of people's concerns, or even the majority. I'm not a fan of Kalanick, personally, but I was prepared to have been wrong about him when I saw his Facebook post about taking care of the drivers who were stranded by this idiocy. Then, I saw they were taking fares to JFK during the taxi strike — effectively breaking it. To my eyes, and those of many others, that is an ugly repudiation of the gesture. It was one hour. Having someone on the president's Business Council thing take a public stand like that in solidarity with the very industry he's trying to destroy would have sent a powerful message, and pretty cheaply. More to the point, turning off surge pricing hours after the strike — that was announced to last one hour — was over is moot.
  - true_religion 10y ago
    Standing in solidarity by preventing the people who are protesting from getting to and from the protest is inane. Without the lipservice they paid, I'd have actually believed the taxi union was rallying against the the protesters.
    - rosser 10y ago
      If you're going there to protest, take the subway. It's not like you've got luggage or anything. And the work stoppage was only against picking up fares, anyway.
  - jyrkesh 10y ago
    As someone who is only just finding out about all this, I don't fully understand why the cab drivers stopped picking people up. I think the fact that people were using Uber (and Lyft) to leave the airport means they needed to (which is ESPECIALLY if true if surge was in place for some period of time and people still willingly took it). As poetic as they might think it is, taxi drivers not welcoming people into the country is, practically speaking, very similar to the airports not welcoming people into the country. All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess, maybe with a few kids you've had to endure protecting/managing for a 5-10 hour flight, and the cabs aren't going. I'd be pretty upset at the cabs, even if I stood with the protesters (which I do). (Keep in mind, this would also include people coming from the many other countries not called out in the EO.) Side note: I think it's crazy how quickly so many different SIGNIFICANT articles are hitting #1 on HN and Reddit. The ban, the judicial pushback, the firing...I think I'm all caught up, I sit down at home, throw open HN, and there's an entire sub-story that went down about cabs, Uber, and Lyft sitting at a new #1. It's all too much for me...
    - rosser 10y ago
      > All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess... Then imagine how it must feel to be one of the people affected by the ban. That's the point of the strike: "Oh you think this is inconvenient?"
- danso 10y ago
  I interpreted the disabling of surge to reduce the incentive for drivers to make an extra buck off of the strike. Does Uber have the ability to nullify an area temporarily so that pickups can't be made? I mean, obviously, it's technically possible, as they set up special zones for airports. But I wonder if they have app behavior to handle a situation in which they need to tell users that pickups are temporarily disabled in an area on an impromptu basis.
  - rosser 10y ago
    I have a friend at Uber. We have had conversations involving the word "geofencing".
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    They did it when they were negotiating their license with some airports. Back in the days LAX was geo-fenced and you had to take a shuttle to a random hotel to get a pick-up. As soon as their licensing (and proper pick-up spots) were up, LAX went live in the app.
- debt 10y ago
  How do you know Surge is automatic?
- visarga 10y ago
  > People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. They could collect an extra few cents from normal fares and store it to compensate drivers during peak time, without fluctuating the fare price for customers. It would work like insurance, and have the same effect with surge pricing while not generating bad PR.
  - bovik 10y ago
    how does that make more drivers come to a specific place/time where demand is outstripping supply?
    - visarga 10y ago
      By paying drivers more. Surge pricing would work only for drivers, and be averaged out for customers so they don't see a change in rates. It would encourage more people to use Uber, that are turned off by surge pricing. But maybe Uber doesn't want to have them as clients during surges, depends on the ability to scale to demand.
  - hueving 10y ago
    So you make riders that intentionally ride during off times subsidize riders that want to go home during peak times. Pretty lame solution if you ask me. The thing that I like about dynamic pricing is that it forces people to think about what they are doing in a broader context. "maybe it's selfish of me to expect a $3 ride home at 1AM on Jan 1st"
    - visarga 10y ago
      Yes, if your main concern is to protect Uber against surges, you're right. But customers also perceive this as an attempt to extract more money from them when they are in a bad position, such as during a crisis. Why not take the "insurance policy" style and average out these surges?
      - 10y ago
- alkonaut 10y ago
  > This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. For me it wasn't the bad messaging around the JFK thing, it was that this incident brought focus to the fact that Uber had earlier expressed sympathy for Trump. This is more than enough for me to switch my business to a competitor. I believe this might have been the case for others too. They had simply been closet Trump supporters in my view, but suddenly they were called out as such.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
Dan Primack summarised this well; Uber failed on messaging: "Uber has done a lot of questionable things over the years, but its actions this past weekend vis-a-vis Trump's immigration ban weren't among them. An actual timeline from Saturday, which may differ from what you saw on social media: • 4:20pm ET: CEO Travis Kalanick sent email to employees. It stopped short of explicitly opposing the ban, but did say: (1) The company would identify and compensate affected drivers. (2) Kalanick will raise the issue of how the "ban will impact many innocent people" this Friday during the first meeting of Trump's so-called CEO Council. This email was posted a short time later to Kalanick's public Facebook page. • 4:55pm ET: NY Taxi Workers union called for a work stoppage at JFK airport from 6pm-7pm. Uber does not suspend its own service, but also does not send out any promotions. • 7:36pm ET: Uber NYC sends out a tweet, saying that surge pricing to and from JFK has been turned off. The claim that Uber was trying to 'break the strike' by sending out its surge pricing tweet is belied by the timing (i.e., sent after the strike was set to end). And while it is true that Kalanick has agreed to be on Trump's CEO council, it's also true that execs from both Uber and Lyft have agreed to sit on a new automation council set up by Trump's Department of Transportation. Either a pox on both their houses, or a pox on none.”
- cdmckay 10y ago
  I think the issue people have isn't the surge pricing so much as the fact that Uber didn't participate in the strike, and thus profited from it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - foota 10y ago
    Do we know there was an attempt to collaborate with Uber on the strike?
    - wavefunction 10y ago
      So far we have no evidence that Uber attempted to take part in the strike but we do have evidence that Uber knew about the strike (temporary cessation of surge pricing) and didn't take part in it.
nichochar 10y ago
It's funny to me how Lyft positions itself like the poor little underdog that deeply cares about humans. People are so susceptible to marketing it's crazy. They provide the exact same service, and Lyft cloned most of uber's features once uber had achieved the unbelievable mindshift of changing people's behavior. Whatever people think, in a few years if Lyft is popular enough, guess what: they too will become the "big evil capitalistic entreprise" and some new venture backed company will send a christmas email to their users telling them they love them and should all dance together on the beach.
- 8ytecoder 10y ago
  To be fair, either Uber copied the idea of ride sharing from lyft or both copied it from sidecar. Uber wasn't the first.
  - deepakhj 10y ago
    Zimride (Zimmer founder of Lyft) started the first carpooling site. I used it many times to offer rides to Tahoe. Uber started their service with black cars. Later Sidecar started the first service to allow non taxi/black car drivers the ability to drive their car and pick up passengers.
    - Klez1993 10y ago
      BlaBlaCar was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlaBlaCar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlaBlaCar
  - jayajay 10y ago
    Who is the first doesn't matter. Who does it best, though? That is the real question.
    - couchand 10y ago
      Unless they're perfect substitutes with no meaningful network effects, in which case the real question is: who is cheapest?
foolfoolz 10y ago
these types of events usually blow over in a month or so. but it does confirm what everyone already knows: ride hailing apps have no stickiness. at the end of the day no one cares what service provides the car.
- chillingeffect 10y ago
  Can someone please help me understand why traditional taxis haven't adapted the same tech as Lyft and Uber? You're right, there really is no moat. Tech is mostly a big ol database. Is it due to disjointure among small companies?
  - mistermumble 10y ago
    There's a startup called Flywheel that has been selling shovels to taxi cab companies -- in the form of electronic dispatch, payments, navigation and GPS-based metering. https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/22/flywheel-expands-uber-like-system-for-taxi-cabs-to-nyc/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/22/flywheel-expands-uber-like...
    - wpietri 10y ago
      And it works fine. I've been using Flywheel since 2013. Their software started out rough, but now it's solid. It may be a bit more expensive, but the average driver I get has been driving in SF more than a decade, so they're knowledgeable and competent. Plus I know they're insured and properly regulated.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    They have in a lot of markets, like Denmark and Spain. Taxi companies are not these monolithic nimble entities, and have multiple parties involved with any transaction - actual driver (independent contractor "renting" the vehicle"), medallion owner, vehicle owner, dispatch service. None have a very strong incentive to differentiate or enough financial resources to break from the pack.
  - jaredsohn 10y ago
Eric_WVGG 10y ago
I finally took the plunge and installed Via, which some friends swear by and is more literally "ride-sharing" than either Uber or Lyft. Was pleasantly surprised to get an email a day later announcing free legal aid for drivers and passengers affected by the ban. Useless in Queens and most of Brooklyn, unfortunately, but served in my little slice.
ploggingdev 10y ago
Another reminder that emotion trumps (unintentional pun) reasoning on social media. I find it depressing that people don't spend any time verifying stories and separating facts from fiction. I would classify the #deleteuber event as a form of fake news. You know what would be a good personal assistant or bot to build (using ML)? One that detects and informs users about fake news. Apparently the vast majority of people are pathetic at detecting fake news and this fact has real implications.
- kkhire 10y ago
  >I find it depressing that people don't spend any time verifying stories and separating facts from fiction. I would classify the #deleteuber event as a form of fake news. The worst part is, this problem will only continue. It's so easy to fake news these days, and lets say a bot was built to vet authenticity...which bot do you trust, the one made by CNN or breitbart? it just feeds back to the original problem, except a bot doing it would just increase the volume of bias news stories that are "vetted" by their version of the truth.
  - ianai 10y ago
    Maybe the thing to do is make a fake news app. Just pump that channel so full with fake news that the only rational option is to seek less news, higher quality.
    - abpavel 10y ago
      You mean The Onion?
- 3131s 10y ago
  Considering that the user base of HN can't even agree on what is and isn't fake news, I'd say your fake news bot is an AI-complete problem.
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  The problem with fake news is not the fake news itself. Fake articles have existed for a long time. The real problem is people becoming idiots and sharing stuff they want to believe even though they question whether it's fake or not.
nojvek 10y ago
One hour Uber. One hour. Just had to support the taxi strike for one hour.
- thescribe 10y ago
  Why should their drivers participate in a union strike without being in the union? If anything Uber looks more palatable to me because they were available when other options stopped.
alphonsegaston 10y ago
Quite the PR coup by Lyft, since they were doing the exact same scabbing at JFK. In this waning neoliberal order, I hope the best protest people can muster is better than being deceived by most cunning brand. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/01/29/uber-triggers-protest-for-not-supporting-taxi-strike-against-refugee-ban/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/01/2...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rm999 10y ago
This is an example of the economic principle of goodwill. Uber has a poor reputation that leads to actual losses, but the negative value of the reputation is difficult to quantify. Conversely, Lyft has fostered positive goodwill that strengthens it in indirect ways. This controversy will likely blow over with a small amount of damage, but it's a reminder of the vulnerability that Uber's management style brings to it. I think they should pay careful attention to how much people really want to hate them.
- tunesmith 10y ago
  I think this is the only interpretation that makes sense, really. If you dig down into what actually happened regarding the taxi strike, then none of the reactions make a lick of sense. This is more that people are looking for reasons to hate Uber and like Lyft. That's a battle Uber has been losing for quite a while.
- parsnipsumthing 10y ago
  This is a great take. Honestly, Travis seems like he is a competent CEO and for a pure technology company, he should be admired. The problem is that Uber's interactions with the broader public are so strained.
ejlangev 10y ago
Seems like Uber didn't really do anything wrong here other than fail on their messaging. Perhaps worth asking why so many people assumed they would be doing the wrong thing though and had little faith in Kalanick's explanations. Flocking to Lyft instead implies people make a distinction between the two in terms of ethics (which Lyft capitalized on) though probably not for any good reasons. This doesn't seem like a good reason to delete Uber but there have been plenty of those in the past so I don't find myself very sad to see them lose business.
- ncallaway 10y ago
  > This doesn't seem like a good reason to delete Uber but there have been plenty of those in the past so I don't find myself very sad to see them lose business. That's how I felt about the situation. There were plenty of reasons already that I should've deleted Uber. It doesn't really matter if this was the reason to delete Uber, so much as it was a reminder to finally get around to it.
throwaway5752 10y ago
Thiel is a big investor, Icahn is a big investor. Both are closely tied to the Trump administration.
- fny 10y ago
  This. Ichaan, a Trump supporter from the first day of candidacy, has a $100mm stake in Lyft... Not sure what Theil's numbers are. If this election has taught me anything it's that people unfortunately think with their hearts to the point of being almost braindead. Reminds me of how Whole Foods was founded by an Ayn Rand loving libertarian, but somehow people think their money goes to a hippy-dippy left leaning institution every time they shop. Not that there's anything wrong with being a libertarian... just making a point about perception.
  - joshbert 10y ago
    I agree wholeheartedly, but I think this phenomenon is to be expected. I don't know any more about the founder of Whole Foods than I do about the founder of Target, nor is it really relevant to me as a consumer. All the vast majority of people have to form an opinion on their image is the companies themselves and their experiences with them. So, we do.
debacle 10y ago
Legal trailblazing costs a lot of money. Attacking entrenched establishments costs a lot of money. Uber was never going to be able to solve the ridesharing problem for just Uber, and its competitors are going to be unhindered by the massive amount of money Uber has spent on changing regulations.
tofu_icecream 10y ago
It was the Taxi Worker's Union that participated in the Strike, not Cab companies. Is it really fare for Uber to force their contractors to stop working and making money in "solidarity" with this union? If Uber drivers wanted to support the strike, they could have stopped doing pick ups.
kevinpet 10y ago
"The Taxi Workers Alliance had asked all drivers, Uber included, to not pick up at JFK" Uber isn't a driver. What does the taxi workers alliance have to say about taxi dispatchers? Did cab companies participate in the strike? For a company to do this might very well be illegal collusion. Individuals can strike, companies aren't as well protected.
throwaw181ay 10y ago
I'm no fan of Uber but come on, this is so stupid, and dangerous for Lyft, because now they are stuck into this kind of pandering. Do they really think these customers will be loyal? at the first political blunder, with enough outrage, they are done. They are pandering to a crowd that is never happy with political posturing. They'll learn it the hard way. Uber absolutely did the right thing here. They chose not to play with fire and play the long term game.
- wan23 10y ago
  In the end, what really differentiates these companies? There aren't many reasons to pick one over the other. Any opportunity that Lyft has to say "Hey! We're different" is good for business.
general_ai 10y ago
Kalanick and Musk are basically the only two remaining adults in SV. Musk basically said on twitter, "I'll go and talk to the guy". Everyone else is more concerned with political correctness and virtue signaling. Hundred thousand bombs dropped into five countries on that list -- not a goddamn peep from anybody. 2150 people killed by drones -- same. Iraqi refugees banned for half a year -- no one has even heard of it. Cuban refugees banned permanently -- okie dokie. But god forbid anyone gets stopped on the border, no sir, we can't have that.
- babesh 10y ago
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giuliani-says-Donald-Trump-wanted-Muslin-ban.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giulian... No, they are protecting their interests even in the face of discrimination. And guess what, those bombs are continuing to be dropped and Trump wants more bombs dropped. http://time.com/4644036/donald-trump-russia-syria-joint-strikes/ http://time.com/4644036/donald-trump-russia-syria-joint-stri...
- oh_sigh 10y ago
  Tim Cook also said that it is better to have a seat at the table than the alternative.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  It's hard to understand what Musk thinks here. He believes he can influence or correct Trump's policies ? weird.
  - general_ai 10y ago
    Has there been any case in recent history (20 years) in which a president has changed anything of any consequence due to mass protest? Musk is on the _advisory board_. It could be that this advisory board is a farce, or it could be that Trump would actually listen to a fellow "billionaire playboy philanthropist". One thing is pretty clear to me: Trump is not going to give a shit about either the liberal press (or in fact press in general), or liberal intelligentsia protesting in the street, especially if both demonize and disparage him no matter what he does, and refuse dialogue.
guelo 10y ago
That perfectly timed million dollar donation to ACLU was marketing genius. I can't imagine how you go about making a decision like that and quickly pull the trigger in such a fast paced volatile environment.
- exodust 10y ago
  which is enough reason for me never to use Lyft. #hasta-la-lyfta-baby (work in progress delete Lyft hashtag).
  - usernameplease 10y ago
    Can I ask why donating to the ACLU made you delete your account? It may be a waste of VC money, but they do stand up for civil liberties.
    - exodust 10y ago
      You signed up to ask me that? Maybe you're from Lyft or ACLU? Today I'm interested in the gritty details of social media manipulation, political marketing and celebrities using their Twitter power to influence customer loyalty. I was replying to guelo, who suggested the 1 million donation from Lyft was well-timed marketing genius. I'm surprised so many people think that money is the answer to everything. Money and hashtags. The more money ACLU gets the more they can apparently fix all these nasty issues. I'm fatigued by the moral high-ground of social media megaphone hissy fits. Viral wisdom for all to follow or else suffer more hashtags. What happened to the business model of simply providing a good reliable service? Investing time and energy into consistency, reliability and the primary business mission? Instead we have companies setting up whiteboards, mapping out the risks vs rewards of viral stunts relating to issues completely removed from their purpose. I don't like hearing that Susan Serandon tweets "delete Uber" and the media picks it up and it goes viral. Not cool. Uber didn't deserve that attack, nor its drivers.
      - guelo 10y ago
        I wasn't making a value judgement when I called it marketing genius. I see the donation as cynical manipulation. But there's no denying that as marketing it was extremely effective at generating app installs.
rdtsc 10y ago
Lyft sent me a political message in an email so I deleted Lyft and now don't have either one. I used them, because I thought they were nicer to the drivers and allowed me tip. And I support the refugees and think this is a stupid and dangerous ban. Oh and I was a bit in the same boat as some of them and on a few occasions was not allowed board the plane with a ticket in hand, and was not able to get home to US. But Lyft is just a driving app nothing else. There are also a few games, a spectrogram utility and other crap. Should I expect my chess game to start sending me "OMG we so hate Trump, stand with us". This is getting ridiculous. We and our allies have bombed the crap out of those countries. Destabilized, them turned them into failed states. (Iran is probably the only sane one who arguably has a functioning government). We bombed hospitals, civilians, funded ISIS. Obama alone, the Nobel Peace Prize recipient just last year managed to drop over 26k bombs but but there is a stupid travel ban and the apps on my phone start emailing me political support statements...
- KirinDave 10y ago
  > This is getting ridiculous. We and our allies have bombed the crap out of those countries. Destabilized, them turned them into failed states. (Iran is probably the only sane one who arguably has a functioning government). We bombed hospitals, civilians, funded ISIS. Obama alone, the Nobel Peace Prize recipient just last year managed to drop over 26k bombs but but there is a stupid travel ban and the apps on my phone start emailing me political support statements... I'm really confused by this. Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, "Oh wait maybe I will not be complacent with this?" If you're interested in a more proactive electorate but then mad that that touches your life, I'm not sure what you're actually asking for. If you'd like a pro-Trump ridesharing app I bet you can get a lot of reddit gold thrown your way to start one...
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    > I'm really confused by this. Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, I am mad that an app on my phone is now sending me emails about what I think is a fake outrage and jumping on a bandwagon. > Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, People should wake up. And one can argue, a good thing about Trump is perhaps we'll see a start of a new party and a new generation who is more involved and will be successful next time during election. But I don't want apps on my phone to wake up. They should keep quiet. > but then mad that that touches your life, But my life is already touched. Don't need Lyft to touch me more. > I'm not sure what you're actually asking for. A taxi app that doesn't send emails every time Trump does something stupid. I imagine that is probably too much. I heard there is a "support Starbucks" thing now as well because they vowed to hire 10k refugees. So I should make an extra effort to get some of that tomorrow. I remember when they were the corporate burnt coffee and independent-suppliers crushing overlords. Then I should enable G+ because Brin was in the news protesting at SFO. I am sure there is a longer list I can find on how I can "support the refugees and squash Trump by buying these 10 great services and products.
animex 10y ago
As we all debate about this on Peter Thiel backed YC Hacker News.
- CalChris 10y ago
  Hacker News (February 19, 2007) predates Thiel's involvement in YC (Mar 10, 2015) by quite a few years, no?
- grzm 10y ago
  Peter Thiel is a part-time partner of YC. "Peter-Thiel backed YC" is putting it a little strongly. https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-peter/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-peter/
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  So what? I'm sure many people here support Thiel. No strikes when Obama wiretapped the whole world and was in bed with the whole tech community at the same time.
niftich 10y ago
It's unfortunate that such a literal instance of hashtag activism was based on pure speculation by random people on Twitter. Uber definitely botched the messaging, but they were in a no-win situation. Their surge pricing algorithm will raise prices in times of low supply and high demand, which a protest coinciding with a taxi strike will definitely hit. I can understand why they would want to announce that they're going to turn off surge pricing, to make it clear they're not trying to profit off of this situation. In retrospect, they would've been better off not saying anything, and perhaps refunding some portion of the ride price later. By making a public post devoid of context or justification, they invited fired-up commenters to arrive at their own interpretation. Some felt that Uber was trying to break the taxi strike, some felt that Uber was incentivizing protesters to clear the airport quickly (as some have pointed out, rides to JFK were not discounted). This coupled with impassioned public largely powerless to react against government action, made a private company which has stoked people's frustrations for a while an easy target for hashtag activism. Lyft's marketing was ingenious -- they quickly capitalized on this unexpected development by donating a million dollars to the ACLU -- actions that are commendable on their own, but definitely appealed to large segments of the population.
- concinds 10y ago
  Yes. And then, Uber's CEO reminded everyone that he wasn't the only one working with the Trump administration, and Musk and others had too, and the dumb Twitter mob started running around accusing him of "snitching", as if that list wasn't already publicly available. It's so preposterous how gullible and hateful mobs are.
tn13 10y ago
Strikes should not be a feature of free societies. What do we achieve by striking and making it hard for normal Americans to go abut their lives ? Trump and his officials probably laugh at you from their taxpayer funded jets. An Uber or Lyft driver is poor than me and I do not want him to earn less because I want to engage in virtue signaling. I would suggest putting up donation boxes and raising more money to donate it to ACLU and other organizations instead of disrupting normal life.
- grzm 10y ago
  Strikes should not be a feature of free societies. Choosing not to work for whatever reason is a feature of a free society, I should think. If one wants to publicly declare the reason, that's exercising another important freedom. Strikers understand that it's going to be an inconvenience of some sort: that's part of the way it attracts attention. They're also willing to pay the price for their actions. They understand that some will not look upon what they're doing favorably, and there may be repercussions. Your suggestions regarding donation boxes are also very worthwhile. Some issues are important enough to warrant inconveniencing others.
juskrey 10y ago
How does taxi airport strike help travelers?
- UweSchmidt 10y ago
  For any employee the outcome of a labor dispute and its indirect influence on working conditions in their own industry vastly eclipses the inconvenience of being delayed at an airport for an hour, or a day.
foota 10y ago
Honestly I'm not sure that uber and lyft could have coordinated a strike in the timeline it sounds like they were given, short of disabling the app or something.
brotherAB 10y ago
I deleted Uber because they changed their app in a way I found distasteful. I can either A: Alow Uber to access my location data even when I'm not using the app. B: Type in the physical address whenever I need a ride. Not cool. I chose to delete the app instead.
FT_intern 10y ago
This is ridiculous. There is no reason to punish or berate some person/entity/company for NOT participating in a strike. It would only make sense if the company openly tried to take advantage of the strike or attempted to stop or disturb the strike. Inaction should not be considered as malice
manigandham 10y ago
Why protest an issue that affects innocent people by creating another issue that affects innocent people? This is not persuasive and only leads to further disagreement against the actual movement. Creating more friction is not the way to motivate change. Immigration/border officials going on strike and refusing to follow the ban order would be much more effective.
akerro 10y ago
Can't delete Uber, it's installed as system app.
doguozkan 10y ago
I'm curious about how taxi drivers are viewed in the US or this specific region. In Turkey, they're mostly hated, because they will go to any length to extort money out of the customers. This ranges from picking longer roads if they detect that the customer doesn't know the area well to asking for 500 euros to even pick them up after terrorist attacks. So, Uber was seen as the savior as their drivers wouldn't try to do any of this and were generally nicer in people's experience (it really doesn't take much to be nicer than a taxi driver here).
- ianai 10y ago
  In the southwest they're generally someone you'd only hire once or twice around an airport on a vacation. They're around public restrooms for favorability.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jondubois 10y ago
I don't understand the #DeleteUber trend. Companies only care about profits. There is no news here. I bet Lyft orchestrated the whole thing... Even if they didn't, they've got their marketing department all hyped up taking advantage of this Uber drama right now (so they are effectively taking advantage of protests too). Then they have the nerve to present themselves as morally superior. What hypocritical pieces of shit they are. It's painful to live in a world where the majority of people are too damn stupid to see this.
omegaworks 10y ago
It will be most interesting to see whether Kalanick follows through with his promise to discuss the EO with Trump [0], and whether having a seat at Trump's shiny business table actually amounts to anything. If it does not, it proves that the council only serves as a prop to promote Trump. This administration is not beyond using cheap props for marketing purposes. [1] If the council holds no actual sway, Kalanick should then visibly and publicly resign from it if he truly stands behind his commitment to fairness. I'm withholding judgement until then. 0. http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-will-talk-to-trump-about-immigration-order-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-will... 1. http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/11/170111_SLATEST_trumpPresserFolders.png.CROP.promo-xlarge2.png http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/201...
- singleespresso 10y ago
  As an avid fan of Uber, I'm waiting for Kalanick's update this weekend. I'm hoping for at least a matching $1m donation to ACLU before using Uber again.
Steeeve 10y ago
Uber didn't lose here. They are getting all kinds of press. There's no real logic in getting rid of the app and those who have tried that have recent phones know that you can't uninstall it - at best you can disable it. But the reality is that there are many people that need rides and they'll use the app tomorrow just like they did yesterday. Heinz didn't take a stand. People are still eating ketchup. Why should anyone waste their time or inconvenience their lives picking on Uber? The only thing this political stunt has done is drawn attention away from the very issue that it was hoping to highlight. It was poorly thought out from the beginning.
leadingthenet 10y ago
Seeing Americans be so against strikes is disheartening.
joelmichael 10y ago
I'm still going to use Uber. Keep up the good work, fellas.
badwulf 10y ago
What do the people flying into the airport have to do with the Muslim ban? The taxi industry is sickening, they feel no empathy towards the people travelling, then why should I feel any empathy towards them? If angry taxi drivers want to do protests, there are ways to do it without harming innocent people travelling in. If they resort to such a thing, how can they claim moral high ground?
- maaaats 10y ago
  This has nothing to do with "angry taxi drivers". This is about making "the innocent people traveling" feel as stuck as the innocent people affected by Trumps order.
  - badwulf 10y ago
    So people visiting the US need to feel the vendetta of the people who don't like Trump's latest policies? Is that the moral high round? Ends justify the means? So if I'm negatively affected by something happening in the world, I'm allowed to channel my anger on anybody?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- azernik 10y ago
  Because it's the biggest way to show power the taxi drivers have. This has always been the logic of the strike as a means of protest - sure, it's unfair, but its also the way labor politics works. And honestly, with a strike lasting only an hour, it feels much more symbolic than a real hardball days-long strike.
  - badwulf 10y ago
    > This has always been the logic of the strike as a means of protest - sure, it's unfair, but its also the way labor politics works. Except this has nothing to do with labour politics, the controversial "Muslim ban" had nothing to do with taxi laws. Using a labour union to push a political agenda is basically abuse of power. Imagine if pro-Trump police would start striking... > And honestly, with a strike lasting only an hour, it feels much more symbolic than a real hardball days-long strike. If you are visiting the US for the first time, you probably won't know that, and you might not even be able to get off the airport. They could have had their protest in an area where people would have noticed them and in a way that does not harm innocent bystanders. > Because it's the biggest way to show power the taxi drivers have. Any amount of power they have, the state has more of it. The only way they can achieve something is if they get the public on their side.
wmccullough 10y ago
Don't care if I get crucified for saying this, but #DeleteUber is a distraction. It's taking away valuable cycles that could be spent against, you know, that actual fuckers involved in causing this ban.
SunTzu55 10y ago
So as I see it, Uber had the following choices, which would have resulted in the following consequences: If Uber had raised surge pricing, they would have been seen as exploitative. If they had forbidden their drivers from heading to JFK, their drivers would have protested that Uber was restricting their right to make a living. *If Uber didn't surge (which it didn't), it would have been seen as 'strike-breaking.' What course of action would have led Uber to "win" this scenario?
davidgerard 10y ago
"The lesson for other companies is clear: no business is going to be able to ride out the Trump years without being held accountable for their actions or inaction." Note that arguing right or wrong of the action or reaction is not relevant - this is a description of the present mood of your market.
dominotw 10y ago
meh.. this will pass like grubhub ceo email episode. outrage ADD is a thing. In 2009 Obama govt profiled Indian immigrants at NY airports. indians were massively abused and hundreds of them were deported from the airport without proper procedure. I was called a dog by an 'immigration officer'. " we will kick you out like dogs if this doesn't verify" - first sentence when i walked up to him and handed him my passport. Now all of a sudden everyone cares about immigrants.
plantsoftware 10y ago
They did the same thing that uber did, yet some how avoided flack
CodeSheikh 10y ago
Edit 1: Deleting unnecessary comment.
- dang 10y ago
  No, we had a brief experiment without politics on HN, then reverted to the rule since forever, which is that most politics are off-topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. It fluctuates. HN isn't immune to the how politicized the outside world is right now. At the same time, it's our job to make sure politics doesn't dominate the site.
Fifer82 10y ago
Is there a word for when a mass movement rejects a service because of hype, and then comes crawling back looking like a fool later? That is what is happening here. Kind of cringe.
village-idiot 10y ago
What a petty and pointless distraction. Use Uber or not, I don't care, but claiming that this is a protest thing is just useless feel-good drivel.
avatar345 10y ago
It seems clear to me that by not supporting the strike, Uber avoided choosing sides, which among Tech companies is as if it explicitly came out and supported Trump's executive order. However, I don't understand how the strike was intended to help the victims, or change policy. A strike is meant to inconvenience a group of decision makers. If a company won't pay fair wages, the the employees stop performing work. Then the company cannot make profit and must find scabs, or give in. If university officials implement unfair or corrupt policies, then students occupy the decision makers' offices. However, it seems like this strike was meant to inconvenience no one related to the problem. Perhaps someone can comment on what I'm missing.
s0me0ne 10y ago
Companies make mistakes all the time that cost them. Uber just made one that will be talked about in hundreds of ways now. Just like Friendster, MySpace, Magnolia, Digg, etc. It may not be fair, but it happens. Knowing how to make good decisions counts a lot regardless if you are at the top on on the way up. In in the end, the customers decide what they feel is best.

675 points by sethbannon 10y ago

Twitter's absurd character limit played a part in this

Completely stolen from https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_surges_to_the_top_10_on_apples_app_store/dd3yi66/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5r2apd/lyft_sur... This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. Uber's Surge system is all automatic--if demand goes way up, and supply doesn't follow suit, prices will increase in the app. Unfortunately, demand goes way up during catastrophes like terror attacks, so Uber has had a few bad instances where, in the wake of a crisis, surge goes up, simply because of the way the system is set up. People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. To address cases like this, Uber put into place a surge shutoff system so that people in these positions aren't charged extra. What happened here was that Uber, in the interest of avoiding another PR disaster, turned off surge to allow protesters (identifying with a cause which their CEO has openly supported) to get to the venue without extra charge. This backfired because that wasn't made clear in their announcement, and they instead came off as strike busters because the NYC taxi firms stupidly chose to express solidarity by shutting down the ability of protesters (not to mention uninvolved travelers) to get to and from the airport via their services. I don't envy Uber--they're in a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't position. It's maddening to see the #deleteUber hashtag get this much traction, especially given that Lyft also continued to operate during the strike, but c'est la vie.

rosser 10y ago
I don't think the pricing is the extent of people's concerns, or even the majority. I'm not a fan of Kalanick, personally, but I was prepared to have been wrong about him when I saw his Facebook post about taking care of the drivers who were stranded by this idiocy. Then, I saw they were taking fares to JFK during the taxi strike — effectively breaking it. To my eyes, and those of many others, that is an ugly repudiation of the gesture. It was one hour. Having someone on the president's Business Council thing take a public stand like that in solidarity with the very industry he's trying to destroy would have sent a powerful message, and pretty cheaply. More to the point, turning off surge pricing hours after the strike — that was announced to last one hour — was over is moot.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Standing in solidarity by preventing the people who are protesting from getting to and from the protest is inane. Without the lipservice they paid, I'd have actually believed the taxi union was rallying against the the protesters.
  - rosser 10y ago
    If you're going there to protest, take the subway. It's not like you've got luggage or anything. And the work stoppage was only against picking up fares, anyway.
- jyrkesh 10y ago
  As someone who is only just finding out about all this, I don't fully understand why the cab drivers stopped picking people up. I think the fact that people were using Uber (and Lyft) to leave the airport means they needed to (which is ESPECIALLY if true if surge was in place for some period of time and people still willingly took it). As poetic as they might think it is, taxi drivers not welcoming people into the country is, practically speaking, very similar to the airports not welcoming people into the country. All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess, maybe with a few kids you've had to endure protecting/managing for a 5-10 hour flight, and the cabs aren't going. I'd be pretty upset at the cabs, even if I stood with the protesters (which I do). (Keep in mind, this would also include people coming from the many other countries not called out in the EO.) Side note: I think it's crazy how quickly so many different SIGNIFICANT articles are hitting #1 on HN and Reddit. The ban, the judicial pushback, the firing...I think I'm all caught up, I sit down at home, throw open HN, and there's an entire sub-story that went down about cabs, Uber, and Lyft sitting at a new #1. It's all too much for me...
  - rosser 10y ago
    > All I'm saying is that it would really suck to be someone caught at the airport in the mess... Then imagine how it must feel to be one of the people affected by the ban. That's the point of the strike: "Oh you think this is inconvenient?"
danso 10y ago
I interpreted the disabling of surge to reduce the incentive for drivers to make an extra buck off of the strike. Does Uber have the ability to nullify an area temporarily so that pickups can't be made? I mean, obviously, it's technically possible, as they set up special zones for airports. But I wonder if they have app behavior to handle a situation in which they need to tell users that pickups are temporarily disabled in an area on an impromptu basis.
- rosser 10y ago
  I have a friend at Uber. We have had conversations involving the word "geofencing".
- prostoalex 10y ago
  They did it when they were negotiating their license with some airports. Back in the days LAX was geo-fenced and you had to take a shuttle to a random hotel to get a pick-up. As soon as their licensing (and proper pick-up spots) were up, LAX went live in the app.
debt 10y ago
How do you know Surge is automatic?
visarga 10y ago
> People who don't know about how Surge works might assume that Uber is deliberately raising prices in these crisis zones to gouge people in peril, which obviously isn't the case. They could collect an extra few cents from normal fares and store it to compensate drivers during peak time, without fluctuating the fare price for customers. It would work like insurance, and have the same effect with surge pricing while not generating bad PR.
- bovik 10y ago
  how does that make more drivers come to a specific place/time where demand is outstripping supply?
  - visarga 10y ago
    By paying drivers more. Surge pricing would work only for drivers, and be averaged out for customers so they don't see a change in rates. It would encourage more people to use Uber, that are turned off by surge pricing. But maybe Uber doesn't want to have them as clients during surges, depends on the ability to scale to demand.
- hueving 10y ago
  So you make riders that intentionally ride during off times subsidize riders that want to go home during peak times. Pretty lame solution if you ask me. The thing that I like about dynamic pricing is that it forces people to think about what they are doing in a broader context. "maybe it's selfish of me to expect a $3 ride home at 1AM on Jan 1st"
  - visarga 10y ago
    Yes, if your main concern is to protect Uber against surges, you're right. But customers also perceive this as an attempt to extract more money from them when they are in a bad position, such as during a crisis. Why not take the "insurance policy" style and average out these surges?
    - 10y ago
alkonaut 10y ago
> This is all a consequence of bad messaging on Uber's part here; they're not in the wrong. For me it wasn't the bad messaging around the JFK thing, it was that this incident brought focus to the fact that Uber had earlier expressed sympathy for Trump. This is more than enough for me to switch my business to a competitor. I believe this might have been the case for others too. They had simply been closet Trump supporters in my view, but suddenly they were called out as such.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

Dan Primack summarised this well; Uber failed on messaging: "Uber has done a lot of questionable things over the years, but its actions this past weekend vis-a-vis Trump's immigration ban weren't among them. An actual timeline from Saturday, which may differ from what you saw on social media: • 4:20pm ET: CEO Travis Kalanick sent email to employees. It stopped short of explicitly opposing the ban, but did say: (1) The company would identify and compensate affected drivers. (2) Kalanick will raise the issue of how the "ban will impact many innocent people" this Friday during the first meeting of Trump's so-called CEO Council. This email was posted a short time later to Kalanick's public Facebook page. • 4:55pm ET: NY Taxi Workers union called for a work stoppage at JFK airport from 6pm-7pm. Uber does not suspend its own service, but also does not send out any promotions. • 7:36pm ET: Uber NYC sends out a tweet, saying that surge pricing to and from JFK has been turned off. The claim that Uber was trying to 'break the strike' by sending out its surge pricing tweet is belied by the timing (i.e., sent after the strike was set to end). And while it is true that Kalanick has agreed to be on Trump's CEO council, it's also true that execs from both Uber and Lyft have agreed to sit on a new automation council set up by Trump's Department of Transportation. Either a pox on both their houses, or a pox on none.”

cdmckay 10y ago
I think the issue people have isn't the surge pricing so much as the fact that Uber didn't participate in the strike, and thus profited from it.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- foota 10y ago
  Do we know there was an attempt to collaborate with Uber on the strike?
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    So far we have no evidence that Uber attempted to take part in the strike but we do have evidence that Uber knew about the strike (temporary cessation of surge pricing) and didn't take part in it.

nichochar 10y ago

It's funny to me how Lyft positions itself like the poor little underdog that deeply cares about humans. People are so susceptible to marketing it's crazy. They provide the exact same service, and Lyft cloned most of uber's features once uber had achieved the unbelievable mindshift of changing people's behavior. Whatever people think, in a few years if Lyft is popular enough, guess what: they too will become the "big evil capitalistic entreprise" and some new venture backed company will send a christmas email to their users telling them they love them and should all dance together on the beach.

8ytecoder 10y ago
To be fair, either Uber copied the idea of ride sharing from lyft or both copied it from sidecar. Uber wasn't the first.
- deepakhj 10y ago
  Zimride (Zimmer founder of Lyft) started the first carpooling site. I used it many times to offer rides to Tahoe. Uber started their service with black cars. Later Sidecar started the first service to allow non taxi/black car drivers the ability to drive their car and pick up passengers.
  - Klez1993 10y ago
    BlaBlaCar was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlaBlaCar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlaBlaCar
- jayajay 10y ago
  Who is the first doesn't matter. Who does it best, though? That is the real question.
  - couchand 10y ago
    Unless they're perfect substitutes with no meaningful network effects, in which case the real question is: who is cheapest?

foolfoolz 10y ago

these types of events usually blow over in a month or so. but it does confirm what everyone already knows: ride hailing apps have no stickiness. at the end of the day no one cares what service provides the car.

chillingeffect 10y ago
Can someone please help me understand why traditional taxis haven't adapted the same tech as Lyft and Uber? You're right, there really is no moat. Tech is mostly a big ol database. Is it due to disjointure among small companies?
- mistermumble 10y ago
  There's a startup called Flywheel that has been selling shovels to taxi cab companies -- in the form of electronic dispatch, payments, navigation and GPS-based metering. https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/22/flywheel-expands-uber-like-system-for-taxi-cabs-to-nyc/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/22/flywheel-expands-uber-like...
  - wpietri 10y ago
    And it works fine. I've been using Flywheel since 2013. Their software started out rough, but now it's solid. It may be a bit more expensive, but the average driver I get has been driving in SF more than a decade, so they're knowledgeable and competent. Plus I know they're insured and properly regulated.
- prostoalex 10y ago
  They have in a lot of markets, like Denmark and Spain. Taxi companies are not these monolithic nimble entities, and have multiple parties involved with any transaction - actual driver (independent contractor "renting" the vehicle"), medallion owner, vehicle owner, dispatch service. None have a very strong incentive to differentiate or enough financial resources to break from the pack.
- jaredsohn 10y ago

Eric_WVGG 10y ago

I finally took the plunge and installed Via, which some friends swear by and is more literally "ride-sharing" than either Uber or Lyft. Was pleasantly surprised to get an email a day later announcing free legal aid for drivers and passengers affected by the ban. Useless in Queens and most of Brooklyn, unfortunately, but served in my little slice.

ploggingdev 10y ago

Another reminder that emotion trumps (unintentional pun) reasoning on social media. I find it depressing that people don't spend any time verifying stories and separating facts from fiction. I would classify the #deleteuber event as a form of fake news. You know what would be a good personal assistant or bot to build (using ML)? One that detects and informs users about fake news. Apparently the vast majority of people are pathetic at detecting fake news and this fact has real implications.

kkhire 10y ago
>I find it depressing that people don't spend any time verifying stories and separating facts from fiction. I would classify the #deleteuber event as a form of fake news. The worst part is, this problem will only continue. It's so easy to fake news these days, and lets say a bot was built to vet authenticity...which bot do you trust, the one made by CNN or breitbart? it just feeds back to the original problem, except a bot doing it would just increase the volume of bias news stories that are "vetted" by their version of the truth.
- ianai 10y ago
  Maybe the thing to do is make a fake news app. Just pump that channel so full with fake news that the only rational option is to seek less news, higher quality.
  - abpavel 10y ago
    You mean The Onion?
3131s 10y ago
Considering that the user base of HN can't even agree on what is and isn't fake news, I'd say your fake news bot is an AI-complete problem.
cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
The problem with fake news is not the fake news itself. Fake articles have existed for a long time. The real problem is people becoming idiots and sharing stuff they want to believe even though they question whether it's fake or not.

nojvek 10y ago

One hour Uber. One hour. Just had to support the taxi strike for one hour.

thescribe 10y ago
Why should their drivers participate in a union strike without being in the union? If anything Uber looks more palatable to me because they were available when other options stopped.

alphonsegaston 10y ago

Quite the PR coup by Lyft, since they were doing the exact same scabbing at JFK. In this waning neoliberal order, I hope the best protest people can muster is better than being deceived by most cunning brand. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/01/29/uber-triggers-protest-for-not-supporting-taxi-strike-against-refugee-ban/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/01/2...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rm999 10y ago

This is an example of the economic principle of goodwill. Uber has a poor reputation that leads to actual losses, but the negative value of the reputation is difficult to quantify. Conversely, Lyft has fostered positive goodwill that strengthens it in indirect ways. This controversy will likely blow over with a small amount of damage, but it's a reminder of the vulnerability that Uber's management style brings to it. I think they should pay careful attention to how much people really want to hate them.

tunesmith 10y ago
I think this is the only interpretation that makes sense, really. If you dig down into what actually happened regarding the taxi strike, then none of the reactions make a lick of sense. This is more that people are looking for reasons to hate Uber and like Lyft. That's a battle Uber has been losing for quite a while.
parsnipsumthing 10y ago
This is a great take. Honestly, Travis seems like he is a competent CEO and for a pure technology company, he should be admired. The problem is that Uber's interactions with the broader public are so strained.

ejlangev 10y ago

Seems like Uber didn't really do anything wrong here other than fail on their messaging. Perhaps worth asking why so many people assumed they would be doing the wrong thing though and had little faith in Kalanick's explanations. Flocking to Lyft instead implies people make a distinction between the two in terms of ethics (which Lyft capitalized on) though probably not for any good reasons. This doesn't seem like a good reason to delete Uber but there have been plenty of those in the past so I don't find myself very sad to see them lose business.

ncallaway 10y ago
> This doesn't seem like a good reason to delete Uber but there have been plenty of those in the past so I don't find myself very sad to see them lose business. That's how I felt about the situation. There were plenty of reasons already that I should've deleted Uber. It doesn't really matter if this was the reason to delete Uber, so much as it was a reminder to finally get around to it.

throwaway5752 10y ago

Thiel is a big investor, Icahn is a big investor. Both are closely tied to the Trump administration.

fny 10y ago
This. Ichaan, a Trump supporter from the first day of candidacy, has a $100mm stake in Lyft... Not sure what Theil's numbers are. If this election has taught me anything it's that people unfortunately think with their hearts to the point of being almost braindead. Reminds me of how Whole Foods was founded by an Ayn Rand loving libertarian, but somehow people think their money goes to a hippy-dippy left leaning institution every time they shop. Not that there's anything wrong with being a libertarian... just making a point about perception.
- joshbert 10y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly, but I think this phenomenon is to be expected. I don't know any more about the founder of Whole Foods than I do about the founder of Target, nor is it really relevant to me as a consumer. All the vast majority of people have to form an opinion on their image is the companies themselves and their experiences with them. So, we do.

debacle 10y ago

Legal trailblazing costs a lot of money. Attacking entrenched establishments costs a lot of money. Uber was never going to be able to solve the ridesharing problem for just Uber, and its competitors are going to be unhindered by the massive amount of money Uber has spent on changing regulations.

tofu_icecream 10y ago

It was the Taxi Worker's Union that participated in the Strike, not Cab companies. Is it really fare for Uber to force their contractors to stop working and making money in "solidarity" with this union? If Uber drivers wanted to support the strike, they could have stopped doing pick ups.

kevinpet 10y ago

"The Taxi Workers Alliance had asked all drivers, Uber included, to not pick up at JFK" Uber isn't a driver. What does the taxi workers alliance have to say about taxi dispatchers? Did cab companies participate in the strike? For a company to do this might very well be illegal collusion. Individuals can strike, companies aren't as well protected.

throwaw181ay 10y ago

I'm no fan of Uber but come on, this is so stupid, and dangerous for Lyft, because now they are stuck into this kind of pandering. Do they really think these customers will be loyal? at the first political blunder, with enough outrage, they are done. They are pandering to a crowd that is never happy with political posturing. They'll learn it the hard way. Uber absolutely did the right thing here. They chose not to play with fire and play the long term game.

wan23 10y ago
In the end, what really differentiates these companies? There aren't many reasons to pick one over the other. Any opportunity that Lyft has to say "Hey! We're different" is good for business.

general_ai 10y ago

Kalanick and Musk are basically the only two remaining adults in SV. Musk basically said on twitter, "I'll go and talk to the guy". Everyone else is more concerned with political correctness and virtue signaling. Hundred thousand bombs dropped into five countries on that list -- not a goddamn peep from anybody. 2150 people killed by drones -- same. Iraqi refugees banned for half a year -- no one has even heard of it. Cuban refugees banned permanently -- okie dokie. But god forbid anyone gets stopped on the border, no sir, we can't have that.

babesh 10y ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giuliani-says-Donald-Trump-wanted-Muslin-ban.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168950/Rudy-Giulian... No, they are protecting their interests even in the face of discrimination. And guess what, those bombs are continuing to be dropped and Trump wants more bombs dropped. http://time.com/4644036/donald-trump-russia-syria-joint-strikes/ http://time.com/4644036/donald-trump-russia-syria-joint-stri...
oh_sigh 10y ago
Tim Cook also said that it is better to have a seat at the table than the alternative.
agumonkey 10y ago
It's hard to understand what Musk thinks here. He believes he can influence or correct Trump's policies ? weird.
- general_ai 10y ago
  Has there been any case in recent history (20 years) in which a president has changed anything of any consequence due to mass protest? Musk is on the _advisory board_. It could be that this advisory board is a farce, or it could be that Trump would actually listen to a fellow "billionaire playboy philanthropist". One thing is pretty clear to me: Trump is not going to give a shit about either the liberal press (or in fact press in general), or liberal intelligentsia protesting in the street, especially if both demonize and disparage him no matter what he does, and refuse dialogue.

guelo 10y ago

That perfectly timed million dollar donation to ACLU was marketing genius. I can't imagine how you go about making a decision like that and quickly pull the trigger in such a fast paced volatile environment.

exodust 10y ago
which is enough reason for me never to use Lyft. #hasta-la-lyfta-baby (work in progress delete Lyft hashtag).
- usernameplease 10y ago
  Can I ask why donating to the ACLU made you delete your account? It may be a waste of VC money, but they do stand up for civil liberties.
  - exodust 10y ago
    You signed up to ask me that? Maybe you're from Lyft or ACLU? Today I'm interested in the gritty details of social media manipulation, political marketing and celebrities using their Twitter power to influence customer loyalty. I was replying to guelo, who suggested the 1 million donation from Lyft was well-timed marketing genius. I'm surprised so many people think that money is the answer to everything. Money and hashtags. The more money ACLU gets the more they can apparently fix all these nasty issues. I'm fatigued by the moral high-ground of social media megaphone hissy fits. Viral wisdom for all to follow or else suffer more hashtags. What happened to the business model of simply providing a good reliable service? Investing time and energy into consistency, reliability and the primary business mission? Instead we have companies setting up whiteboards, mapping out the risks vs rewards of viral stunts relating to issues completely removed from their purpose. I don't like hearing that Susan Serandon tweets "delete Uber" and the media picks it up and it goes viral. Not cool. Uber didn't deserve that attack, nor its drivers.
    - guelo 10y ago
      I wasn't making a value judgement when I called it marketing genius. I see the donation as cynical manipulation. But there's no denying that as marketing it was extremely effective at generating app installs.

rdtsc 10y ago

Lyft sent me a political message in an email so I deleted Lyft and now don't have either one. I used them, because I thought they were nicer to the drivers and allowed me tip. And I support the refugees and think this is a stupid and dangerous ban. Oh and I was a bit in the same boat as some of them and on a few occasions was not allowed board the plane with a ticket in hand, and was not able to get home to US. But Lyft is just a driving app nothing else. There are also a few games, a spectrogram utility and other crap. Should I expect my chess game to start sending me "OMG we so hate Trump, stand with us". This is getting ridiculous. We and our allies have bombed the crap out of those countries. Destabilized, them turned them into failed states. (Iran is probably the only sane one who arguably has a functioning government). We bombed hospitals, civilians, funded ISIS. Obama alone, the Nobel Peace Prize recipient just last year managed to drop over 26k bombs but but there is a stupid travel ban and the apps on my phone start emailing me political support statements...

KirinDave 10y ago
> This is getting ridiculous. We and our allies have bombed the crap out of those countries. Destabilized, them turned them into failed states. (Iran is probably the only sane one who arguably has a functioning government). We bombed hospitals, civilians, funded ISIS. Obama alone, the Nobel Peace Prize recipient just last year managed to drop over 26k bombs but but there is a stupid travel ban and the apps on my phone start emailing me political support statements... I'm really confused by this. Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, "Oh wait maybe I will not be complacent with this?" If you're interested in a more proactive electorate but then mad that that touches your life, I'm not sure what you're actually asking for. If you'd like a pro-Trump ridesharing app I bet you can get a lot of reddit gold thrown your way to start one...
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > I'm really confused by this. Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, I am mad that an app on my phone is now sending me emails about what I think is a fake outrage and jumping on a bandwagon. > Are you mad because the political climate is encouraging people to wake up and go, People should wake up. And one can argue, a good thing about Trump is perhaps we'll see a start of a new party and a new generation who is more involved and will be successful next time during election. But I don't want apps on my phone to wake up. They should keep quiet. > but then mad that that touches your life, But my life is already touched. Don't need Lyft to touch me more. > I'm not sure what you're actually asking for. A taxi app that doesn't send emails every time Trump does something stupid. I imagine that is probably too much. I heard there is a "support Starbucks" thing now as well because they vowed to hire 10k refugees. So I should make an extra effort to get some of that tomorrow. I remember when they were the corporate burnt coffee and independent-suppliers crushing overlords. Then I should enable G+ because Brin was in the news protesting at SFO. I am sure there is a longer list I can find on how I can "support the refugees and squash Trump by buying these 10 great services and products.

animex 10y ago

As we all debate about this on Peter Thiel backed YC Hacker News.

CalChris 10y ago
Hacker News (February 19, 2007) predates Thiel's involvement in YC (Mar 10, 2015) by quite a few years, no?
grzm 10y ago
Peter Thiel is a part-time partner of YC. "Peter-Thiel backed YC" is putting it a little strongly. https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-peter/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-peter/
angry-hacker 10y ago
So what? I'm sure many people here support Thiel. No strikes when Obama wiretapped the whole world and was in bed with the whole tech community at the same time.

niftich 10y ago

It's unfortunate that such a literal instance of hashtag activism was based on pure speculation by random people on Twitter. Uber definitely botched the messaging, but they were in a no-win situation. Their surge pricing algorithm will raise prices in times of low supply and high demand, which a protest coinciding with a taxi strike will definitely hit. I can understand why they would want to announce that they're going to turn off surge pricing, to make it clear they're not trying to profit off of this situation. In retrospect, they would've been better off not saying anything, and perhaps refunding some portion of the ride price later. By making a public post devoid of context or justification, they invited fired-up commenters to arrive at their own interpretation. Some felt that Uber was trying to break the taxi strike, some felt that Uber was incentivizing protesters to clear the airport quickly (as some have pointed out, rides to JFK were not discounted). This coupled with impassioned public largely powerless to react against government action, made a private company which has stoked people's frustrations for a while an easy target for hashtag activism. Lyft's marketing was ingenious -- they quickly capitalized on this unexpected development by donating a million dollars to the ACLU -- actions that are commendable on their own, but definitely appealed to large segments of the population.

concinds 10y ago
Yes. And then, Uber's CEO reminded everyone that he wasn't the only one working with the Trump administration, and Musk and others had too, and the dumb Twitter mob started running around accusing him of "snitching", as if that list wasn't already publicly available. It's so preposterous how gullible and hateful mobs are.

tn13 10y ago

Strikes should not be a feature of free societies. What do we achieve by striking and making it hard for normal Americans to go abut their lives ? Trump and his officials probably laugh at you from their taxpayer funded jets. An Uber or Lyft driver is poor than me and I do not want him to earn less because I want to engage in virtue signaling. I would suggest putting up donation boxes and raising more money to donate it to ACLU and other organizations instead of disrupting normal life.

grzm 10y ago
Strikes should not be a feature of free societies. Choosing not to work for whatever reason is a feature of a free society, I should think. If one wants to publicly declare the reason, that's exercising another important freedom. Strikers understand that it's going to be an inconvenience of some sort: that's part of the way it attracts attention. They're also willing to pay the price for their actions. They understand that some will not look upon what they're doing favorably, and there may be repercussions. Your suggestions regarding donation boxes are also very worthwhile. Some issues are important enough to warrant inconveniencing others.

juskrey 10y ago

How does taxi airport strike help travelers?

UweSchmidt 10y ago
For any employee the outcome of a labor dispute and its indirect influence on working conditions in their own industry vastly eclipses the inconvenience of being delayed at an airport for an hour, or a day.

foota 10y ago

Honestly I'm not sure that uber and lyft could have coordinated a strike in the timeline it sounds like they were given, short of disabling the app or something.

brotherAB 10y ago

I deleted Uber because they changed their app in a way I found distasteful. I can either A: Alow Uber to access my location data even when I'm not using the app. B: Type in the physical address whenever I need a ride. Not cool. I chose to delete the app instead.

FT_intern 10y ago

This is ridiculous. There is no reason to punish or berate some person/entity/company for NOT participating in a strike. It would only make sense if the company openly tried to take advantage of the strike or attempted to stop or disturb the strike. Inaction should not be considered as malice

manigandham 10y ago

Why protest an issue that affects innocent people by creating another issue that affects innocent people? This is not persuasive and only leads to further disagreement against the actual movement. Creating more friction is not the way to motivate change. Immigration/border officials going on strike and refusing to follow the ban order would be much more effective.

akerro 10y ago

Can't delete Uber, it's installed as system app.

doguozkan 10y ago

I'm curious about how taxi drivers are viewed in the US or this specific region. In Turkey, they're mostly hated, because they will go to any length to extort money out of the customers. This ranges from picking longer roads if they detect that the customer doesn't know the area well to asking for 500 euros to even pick them up after terrorist attacks. So, Uber was seen as the savior as their drivers wouldn't try to do any of this and were generally nicer in people's experience (it really doesn't take much to be nicer than a taxi driver here).

ianai 10y ago
In the southwest they're generally someone you'd only hire once or twice around an airport on a vacation. They're around public restrooms for favorability.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jondubois 10y ago

I don't understand the #DeleteUber trend. Companies only care about profits. There is no news here. I bet Lyft orchestrated the whole thing... Even if they didn't, they've got their marketing department all hyped up taking advantage of this Uber drama right now (so they are effectively taking advantage of protests too). Then they have the nerve to present themselves as morally superior. What hypocritical pieces of shit they are. It's painful to live in a world where the majority of people are too damn stupid to see this.

omegaworks 10y ago

It will be most interesting to see whether Kalanick follows through with his promise to discuss the EO with Trump [0], and whether having a seat at Trump's shiny business table actually amounts to anything. If it does not, it proves that the council only serves as a prop to promote Trump. This administration is not beyond using cheap props for marketing purposes. [1] If the council holds no actual sway, Kalanick should then visibly and publicly resign from it if he truly stands behind his commitment to fairness. I'm withholding judgement until then. 0. http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-will-talk-to-trump-about-immigration-order-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-will... 1. http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/11/170111_SLATEST_trumpPresserFolders.png.CROP.promo-xlarge2.png http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_slatest/201...

singleespresso 10y ago
As an avid fan of Uber, I'm waiting for Kalanick's update this weekend. I'm hoping for at least a matching $1m donation to ACLU before using Uber again.

Steeeve 10y ago

Uber didn't lose here. They are getting all kinds of press. There's no real logic in getting rid of the app and those who have tried that have recent phones know that you can't uninstall it - at best you can disable it. But the reality is that there are many people that need rides and they'll use the app tomorrow just like they did yesterday. Heinz didn't take a stand. People are still eating ketchup. Why should anyone waste their time or inconvenience their lives picking on Uber? The only thing this political stunt has done is drawn attention away from the very issue that it was hoping to highlight. It was poorly thought out from the beginning.

leadingthenet 10y ago

Seeing Americans be so against strikes is disheartening.

joelmichael 10y ago

I'm still going to use Uber. Keep up the good work, fellas.

badwulf 10y ago

What do the people flying into the airport have to do with the Muslim ban? The taxi industry is sickening, they feel no empathy towards the people travelling, then why should I feel any empathy towards them? If angry taxi drivers want to do protests, there are ways to do it without harming innocent people travelling in. If they resort to such a thing, how can they claim moral high ground?

maaaats 10y ago
This has nothing to do with "angry taxi drivers". This is about making "the innocent people traveling" feel as stuck as the innocent people affected by Trumps order.
- badwulf 10y ago
  So people visiting the US need to feel the vendetta of the people who don't like Trump's latest policies? Is that the moral high round? Ends justify the means? So if I'm negatively affected by something happening in the world, I'm allowed to channel my anger on anybody?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
azernik 10y ago
Because it's the biggest way to show power the taxi drivers have. This has always been the logic of the strike as a means of protest - sure, it's unfair, but its also the way labor politics works. And honestly, with a strike lasting only an hour, it feels much more symbolic than a real hardball days-long strike.
- badwulf 10y ago
  > This has always been the logic of the strike as a means of protest - sure, it's unfair, but its also the way labor politics works. Except this has nothing to do with labour politics, the controversial "Muslim ban" had nothing to do with taxi laws. Using a labour union to push a political agenda is basically abuse of power. Imagine if pro-Trump police would start striking... > And honestly, with a strike lasting only an hour, it feels much more symbolic than a real hardball days-long strike. If you are visiting the US for the first time, you probably won't know that, and you might not even be able to get off the airport. They could have had their protest in an area where people would have noticed them and in a way that does not harm innocent bystanders. > Because it's the biggest way to show power the taxi drivers have. Any amount of power they have, the state has more of it. The only way they can achieve something is if they get the public on their side.

wmccullough 10y ago

Don't care if I get crucified for saying this, but #DeleteUber is a distraction. It's taking away valuable cycles that could be spent against, you know, that actual fuckers involved in causing this ban.

SunTzu55 10y ago

So as I see it, Uber had the following choices, which would have resulted in the following consequences: If Uber had raised surge pricing, they would have been seen as exploitative. If they had forbidden their drivers from heading to JFK, their drivers would have protested that Uber was restricting their right to make a living. *If Uber didn't surge (which it didn't), it would have been seen as 'strike-breaking.' What course of action would have led Uber to "win" this scenario?

davidgerard 10y ago

"The lesson for other companies is clear: no business is going to be able to ride out the Trump years without being held accountable for their actions or inaction." Note that arguing right or wrong of the action or reaction is not relevant - this is a description of the present mood of your market.

dominotw 10y ago

meh.. this will pass like grubhub ceo email episode. outrage ADD is a thing. In 2009 Obama govt profiled Indian immigrants at NY airports. indians were massively abused and hundreds of them were deported from the airport without proper procedure. I was called a dog by an 'immigration officer'. " we will kick you out like dogs if this doesn't verify" - first sentence when i walked up to him and handed him my passport. Now all of a sudden everyone cares about immigrants.

plantsoftware 10y ago

They did the same thing that uber did, yet some how avoided flack

CodeSheikh 10y ago

Edit 1: Deleting unnecessary comment.

dang 10y ago
No, we had a brief experiment without politics on HN, then reverted to the rule since forever, which is that most politics are off-topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. It fluctuates. HN isn't immune to the how politicized the outside world is right now. At the same time, it's our job to make sure politics doesn't dominate the site.

Fifer82 10y ago

Is there a word for when a mass movement rejects a service because of hype, and then comes crawling back looking like a fool later? That is what is happening here. Kind of cringe.

village-idiot 10y ago

What a petty and pointless distraction. Use Uber or not, I don't care, but claiming that this is a protest thing is just useless feel-good drivel.

avatar345 10y ago

It seems clear to me that by not supporting the strike, Uber avoided choosing sides, which among Tech companies is as if it explicitly came out and supported Trump's executive order. However, I don't understand how the strike was intended to help the victims, or change policy. A strike is meant to inconvenience a group of decision makers. If a company won't pay fair wages, the the employees stop performing work. Then the company cannot make profit and must find scabs, or give in. If university officials implement unfair or corrupt policies, then students occupy the decision makers' offices. However, it seems like this strike was meant to inconvenience no one related to the problem. Perhaps someone can comment on what I'm missing.

s0me0ne 10y ago

Companies make mistakes all the time that cost them. Uber just made one that will be talked about in hundreds of ways now. Just like Friendster, MySpace, Magnolia, Digg, etc. It may not be fair, but it happens. Knowing how to make good decisions counts a lot regardless if you are at the top on on the way up. In in the end, the customers decide what they feel is best.