4 ms·

The part about Department of Education ensuring a competent workfore doesn't jive with haphazardly turning back permanent residents with PhDs and valid green ca

The part about Department of Education ensuring a competent workfore doesn't jive with haphazardly turning back permanent residents with PhDs and valid green card from reentering the country where they live. The US was made great when refugees from around the world were welcomed and then prospered for both themselves and the melting pot country. The rush to enact these sort of ignorant, brutal, arbitrary and uncivilized policy blunders further errode national security, the economy and international standing... also, the shitshow of a constitutional crisis is brewing where the various parts of government ignore the law and do whatever they want.

yriri99 10y ago
Kek. Fuck off libtard.
guest-speaker-4 10y ago
PS: it seems like it was thrown together without much roast beef on the bone.
mc32 10y ago
Except for Iran, most of the other countries didn't contribute to a large part of the US "intelligentsia" [people with advanced technical degrees] Any deficit could be compensated by increasing quotas for people from alternate countries, India, Russia, China all which produce great numbers of people in technical fields and who don't always get choice work in their home countries.
- guest-speaker-4 10y ago
  You missed the point entirely. Leaving out Irish, Italians, Syrias or the Jews (Godwin's Law exception) because of nativist hate toward disparaged peoples was/is shooting oneself in the foot... other, wiser countries will gain by taking in more people (either to bolster their fertility rates, tax bases and/or future world standing) because it's hard to select the good ones in an haphazard, politically-driven immigration process whose children, grandchildren, etc. have the greatest probability of being the next billionaire job creator, small business owner or at least high income-earning taxpayers.
  - mc32 10y ago
    Are you claiming immigrants from the temporarily banned countries have greater propensity for all the above?
  - nicolas_t 10y ago
    Additionally people from other countries will see that and might decide not to come to the US. There's now a lot of opportunities for well educated people other than the US and the actions of Trump make the US seem like a risky choice.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Steve Jobs was the son of Syrian immigrants... Iraq has a tradition of scholarship similar to that of Iran. And while it has obviously been decimated by the reign of Saddam and three devastating wars, I'm sure the spirit of it can survive one or two generations by being passed down in families. The jewish population in Europe, most of whom emigrated in 1944-1950, had also lived through 20 years of radically diminished access to education, and had to start anew from basically nothing. But their children went on to become the most productive scientific community in the history of mankind.
- concinds 10y ago
  You miss out on the fact that Trump's actions lower America's reputation and attractiveness to the whole world. The immigration process to the US is so complex, and now so potentially volatile, that lots of people who could have wanted to contribute to the US will just want to go to Canada or Europe instead. Even if they're not affected by the 7-country-ban, because they can't be sure that it won't be expanded later. Trump's EO sent a message, and it was the wrong message. People are listening. This is going to have potentially decades-long ramifications for STEM, tech, and cybersecurity in the US, among other things.
  - mc32 10y ago
    I doubt it. There are huge amounts of people who would love to move here, given the chance. People who can't get a work visa for the EU, for example. Or even from the EU and are interested in cutting edge things. They don't care about politics, they just want to come and work. I'd bet, even the people affected directly by the ban, if given the chance would accept, despite your assertion. When I go to work or live in a diff country, the thought about immigration policies do not enter my mind aside from, can I get the visa.
    - song 10y ago
      I work as a consultant remotely, most of my customers are American companies. I've been paid a bit more than 1 million USD altogether in the last 4 years but haven't contributed back to the US through taxes. I also didn't contribute to the local economy there because I do not live there. Once upon a time, I wanted to immigrate to the US but the immigration laws convinced me otherwise. I'm interested in cutting edge things but I found that I could easily work on them without being in the country. This is just anecdotal and I don't know how many are like me but I do have quite a few friends in Europe who have the impression that the immigration process to the US is over complicated and reject trying to go there out of hand.
      - mc32 10y ago
        I'm sure there are cases like yours --and it's probably not a bad thing for the world economy and prosperity. There is a benefit to other nations becoming economically healthy, rather than suffering "brain drain" and having their brightest minds only go to already successful economies further contributing to declining conditions in those countries. We only need to look at the state Russia and South Africa are in and where they could be, if they retained their talent.
DarkKomunalec 10y ago
Actually, immigration from 'around the world' only dates back to 1965 for the US [1]. Before that, it was more or less 'whites only' - preferably not even eastern European whites. And it took many years for the new policy to be felt [2]. So the history of the US as a nation of immigrants from around the world is rather brief, and saying it was made great by this is untrue, unless you're arguing it was 'made great' entirely in the last 40-50 years. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1965 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States#Historical_data_for_all_races_and_for_Hispanic_origin_.281610.E2.80.932010.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...
LyndsySimon 10y ago
> The part about Department of Education ensuring a competent workfore doesn't jive with haphazardly turning back permanent residents with PhDs and valid green card from reentering the country where they live. This EO is ordering a review and report, while the immigration EO is ordering actions to address a perceived immediate need. Note also that they are only in effect for 60 and 90 days respectively - this administration is in the "organization" phase still.

yriri99 10y ago

Kek. Fuck off libtard.

guest-speaker-4 10y ago

PS: it seems like it was thrown together without much roast beef on the bone.

mc32 10y ago

Except for Iran, most of the other countries didn't contribute to a large part of the US "intelligentsia" [people with advanced technical degrees] Any deficit could be compensated by increasing quotas for people from alternate countries, India, Russia, China all which produce great numbers of people in technical fields and who don't always get choice work in their home countries.

guest-speaker-4 10y ago
You missed the point entirely. Leaving out Irish, Italians, Syrias or the Jews (Godwin's Law exception) because of nativist hate toward disparaged peoples was/is shooting oneself in the foot... other, wiser countries will gain by taking in more people (either to bolster their fertility rates, tax bases and/or future world standing) because it's hard to select the good ones in an haphazard, politically-driven immigration process whose children, grandchildren, etc. have the greatest probability of being the next billionaire job creator, small business owner or at least high income-earning taxpayers.
- mc32 10y ago
  Are you claiming immigrants from the temporarily banned countries have greater propensity for all the above?
- nicolas_t 10y ago
  Additionally people from other countries will see that and might decide not to come to the US. There's now a lot of opportunities for well educated people other than the US and the actions of Trump make the US seem like a risky choice.
matt4077 10y ago
Steve Jobs was the son of Syrian immigrants... Iraq has a tradition of scholarship similar to that of Iran. And while it has obviously been decimated by the reign of Saddam and three devastating wars, I'm sure the spirit of it can survive one or two generations by being passed down in families. The jewish population in Europe, most of whom emigrated in 1944-1950, had also lived through 20 years of radically diminished access to education, and had to start anew from basically nothing. But their children went on to become the most productive scientific community in the history of mankind.
concinds 10y ago
You miss out on the fact that Trump's actions lower America's reputation and attractiveness to the whole world. The immigration process to the US is so complex, and now so potentially volatile, that lots of people who could have wanted to contribute to the US will just want to go to Canada or Europe instead. Even if they're not affected by the 7-country-ban, because they can't be sure that it won't be expanded later. Trump's EO sent a message, and it was the wrong message. People are listening. This is going to have potentially decades-long ramifications for STEM, tech, and cybersecurity in the US, among other things.
- mc32 10y ago
  I doubt it. There are huge amounts of people who would love to move here, given the chance. People who can't get a work visa for the EU, for example. Or even from the EU and are interested in cutting edge things. They don't care about politics, they just want to come and work. I'd bet, even the people affected directly by the ban, if given the chance would accept, despite your assertion. When I go to work or live in a diff country, the thought about immigration policies do not enter my mind aside from, can I get the visa.
  - song 10y ago
    I work as a consultant remotely, most of my customers are American companies. I've been paid a bit more than 1 million USD altogether in the last 4 years but haven't contributed back to the US through taxes. I also didn't contribute to the local economy there because I do not live there. Once upon a time, I wanted to immigrate to the US but the immigration laws convinced me otherwise. I'm interested in cutting edge things but I found that I could easily work on them without being in the country. This is just anecdotal and I don't know how many are like me but I do have quite a few friends in Europe who have the impression that the immigration process to the US is over complicated and reject trying to go there out of hand.
    - mc32 10y ago
      I'm sure there are cases like yours --and it's probably not a bad thing for the world economy and prosperity. There is a benefit to other nations becoming economically healthy, rather than suffering "brain drain" and having their brightest minds only go to already successful economies further contributing to declining conditions in those countries. We only need to look at the state Russia and South Africa are in and where they could be, if they retained their talent.

DarkKomunalec 10y ago

Actually, immigration from 'around the world' only dates back to 1965 for the US [1]. Before that, it was more or less 'whites only' - preferably not even eastern European whites. And it took many years for the new policy to be felt [2]. So the history of the US as a nation of immigrants from around the world is rather brief, and saying it was made great by this is untrue, unless you're arguing it was 'made great' entirely in the last 40-50 years. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1965 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States#Historical_data_for_all_races_and_for_Hispanic_origin_.281610.E2.80.932010.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

LyndsySimon 10y ago

> The part about Department of Education ensuring a competent workfore doesn't jive with haphazardly turning back permanent residents with PhDs and valid green card from reentering the country where they live. This EO is ordering a review and report, while the immigration EO is ordering actions to address a perceived immediate need. Note also that they are only in effect for 60 and 90 days respectively - this administration is in the "organization" phase still.