9 ms·

For an out-of-warranty German car, your best bet is the independent mechanics that the local car club members like. For a BMW, maybe start with the BMWCCA-appr

by sk5t 10y ago

For an out-of-warranty German car, your best bet is the independent mechanics that the local car club members like. For a BMW, maybe start with the BMWCCA-approved safety inspection shops on the track day prep list.

mulmen 10y ago
Yes this is great advice, I have since found an independent shop that I trust. They are actually the place I went for a second opinion on the engine replacement. I also found a third-party warranty company that does not require service at the dealership.
overcast 10y ago
Yep, been taking mine to the local mom and pop BMW racing club guy shop since day one. The ONE and ONLY time I took my car to the dealer for a free oil change. They didn't put the oil cap back on, sprayed everywhere in the engine as I was leaving, and months later I found out they didn't replace the drain plug access panel underneath. Can't handle oil changes, I sure as shit am not bringing it there for something serious. Oh, forgot one more thing. They didn't tighten down the coolant cap fully, so that eventually seeped out enough to set off the coolant level alarms.
- mulmen 10y ago
  I took mine in for an oil change and they also removed that drain plug panel. In addition they broke the plastic cover for the cabin air filter by over-tightening the bolt that holds it on. It's a staggering level of incompetence.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Yeh it's crazy, and you reminded me about the coolant cap they didn't fully tighten as well! All things you find out about six months later, when alarms go off. No way to every hold anyone accountable.
    - mulmen 10y ago
      I changed the oil myself the next time and they had the filter cover torqued down so tight I had to make a wrench out of an old timing belt to get enough leverage to remove it. The cap has a torque spec printed right on it that is much lower than whatever the dealer tightened it to. The amazing thing isn't just the degree to which they make mistakes it's the frequency. More often than not they are doing the job wrong.
      - overcast 10y ago
        I've always changed my own oil, and at every 7500, rather than the insane 15000 BMW states for their service intervals. So while it was in warranty, I took advantage of the 15000 mile changes, and did my own in between. In hindsight, it's not even worth my time, and I won't be doing it again with a future car. Oil change is quick, and you can get 5L Liqui Moly for much cheaper than "BMW" brand oil.
        mulmen 10y ago
        This is exactly what I do, down to the oil. BMW made it really easy with the access flap for the drain plug and there are convenient jacking points on the subframe. The service calls for more than just changing oil but I'm not confident that the dealer even does all the "extra" things they claim. My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it.
        mschuster91 10y ago
        > My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it.My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it. Leave brake fluid stuff to the experts. If you manage to get any moisture or air into your brake systems, say goodbye to your brakes. Back when I had a car, I did everything by myself except brakes, engine works and steering - mess up on these three and you can end up dead.
- dingo_bat 10y ago
  Is this problem specific to BMW? Because I've never heard any of those things happen to a Honda or a Toyota.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    It's very common at all dealerships. My dad worked at a Toyota dealership for 20+ years. He still takes his cars there for service. They frequently overfill them with oil because they don't take the time to let the crankcase drain fully. I worked for a guy who took his vehicles in to the same dealer for service and the Toyota shop forgot to put his drain plug back in then drove his truck around the lot and told him it was good to go. Luckily he did his own inspection because the crankcase was completely empty. I was in the waiting room of another Toyota dealership and the service writer told a woman that her scheduled service would cost $500.00 because her drain plug was stripped out and she needed a new oil pan. She insisted that the car had always been serviced at that Toyota dealer and they told her they could not verify that and the part is not covered under warranty because it is a "wear part". The incentive structure at a dealer service department is the exact opposite of favorable to the customer. Dealers are incentivized to perform the maximum number of warranty services so as long as they don't run afoul of the manufacturers expectation of warranty costs they are rewarded for excessive repairs. The excessive repairs are passed on to new customers in the form of less standard equipment and increased sticker prices so as long as sales are at an acceptable level manufacturers have no incentive to call the dealers on it. When out of warranty cars come in the customer is treated as a blank check to be bled dry because most people won't question the repairs if the price seems reasonable. e: I forgot about the time that same Toyota dealer that left out the drain plug over-torqued my lug nuts so severely that they warped the brake rotors. I noticed the pulsing in the brakes and pulled the wheels off to replace the rotors and the studs snapped off with my hand wrench! They were so tight that the threads were visibly stretched. Oh and when I worked there as a lot attendant in high school a tech replaced a radiator but didn't reattach the fan shroud so when I started the vehicle the whole fan/shroud assembly exploded and destroyed the radiator.
    - dba7dba 10y ago
      One of my ex-coworker took his Toyota sedan to dealership for every single service need, like engine oil changes. And you know they advertise people should bring in cars to dealership despite the higher price because they do complete inspection in every visit. Guess what. In of his his visits to the dealership, the mechanic came around and pointed out with 'pride' that he had found completely worn out brake pads. His brake pads were worn out to the point where simple replacing replacing wasn't enough. Because the brake pads weren't replaced in time, the repair was going to be more complicated and $$. The thing is my coworker had been taking the car to the same dealership since he had bought it there like 3 years before. And apparently no one had inspected or bothered to inform customer about the worn out brake pads. Think about it. Elon Musk, the man who very possibly could put first humans on Mars, is annoyed with car dealerships enough to the point he refuses to sell his Teslas through dealers. He is going through needless hassle with sales channel of Tesla because he's sick of car dealerships.

by sk5t 10y ago

mulmen 10y ago

Yes this is great advice, I have since found an independent shop that I trust. They are actually the place I went for a second opinion on the engine replacement. I also found a third-party warranty company that does not require service at the dealership.

overcast 10y ago

Yep, been taking mine to the local mom and pop BMW racing club guy shop since day one. The ONE and ONLY time I took my car to the dealer for a free oil change. They didn't put the oil cap back on, sprayed everywhere in the engine as I was leaving, and months later I found out they didn't replace the drain plug access panel underneath. Can't handle oil changes, I sure as shit am not bringing it there for something serious. Oh, forgot one more thing. They didn't tighten down the coolant cap fully, so that eventually seeped out enough to set off the coolant level alarms.

mulmen 10y ago
I took mine in for an oil change and they also removed that drain plug panel. In addition they broke the plastic cover for the cabin air filter by over-tightening the bolt that holds it on. It's a staggering level of incompetence.
- overcast 10y ago
  Yeh it's crazy, and you reminded me about the coolant cap they didn't fully tighten as well! All things you find out about six months later, when alarms go off. No way to every hold anyone accountable.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    I changed the oil myself the next time and they had the filter cover torqued down so tight I had to make a wrench out of an old timing belt to get enough leverage to remove it. The cap has a torque spec printed right on it that is much lower than whatever the dealer tightened it to. The amazing thing isn't just the degree to which they make mistakes it's the frequency. More often than not they are doing the job wrong.
    - overcast 10y ago
      I've always changed my own oil, and at every 7500, rather than the insane 15000 BMW states for their service intervals. So while it was in warranty, I took advantage of the 15000 mile changes, and did my own in between. In hindsight, it's not even worth my time, and I won't be doing it again with a future car. Oil change is quick, and you can get 5L Liqui Moly for much cheaper than "BMW" brand oil.
      - mulmen 10y ago
        This is exactly what I do, down to the oil. BMW made it really easy with the access flap for the drain plug and there are convenient jacking points on the subframe. The service calls for more than just changing oil but I'm not confident that the dealer even does all the "extra" things they claim. My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it.
        mschuster91 10y ago
        > My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it.My car is due for a brake fluid flush soon, not sure if I will do that myself or have the mechanic do it. Leave brake fluid stuff to the experts. If you manage to get any moisture or air into your brake systems, say goodbye to your brakes. Back when I had a car, I did everything by myself except brakes, engine works and steering - mess up on these three and you can end up dead.
dingo_bat 10y ago
Is this problem specific to BMW? Because I've never heard any of those things happen to a Honda or a Toyota.
- mulmen 10y ago
  It's very common at all dealerships. My dad worked at a Toyota dealership for 20+ years. He still takes his cars there for service. They frequently overfill them with oil because they don't take the time to let the crankcase drain fully. I worked for a guy who took his vehicles in to the same dealer for service and the Toyota shop forgot to put his drain plug back in then drove his truck around the lot and told him it was good to go. Luckily he did his own inspection because the crankcase was completely empty. I was in the waiting room of another Toyota dealership and the service writer told a woman that her scheduled service would cost $500.00 because her drain plug was stripped out and she needed a new oil pan. She insisted that the car had always been serviced at that Toyota dealer and they told her they could not verify that and the part is not covered under warranty because it is a "wear part". The incentive structure at a dealer service department is the exact opposite of favorable to the customer. Dealers are incentivized to perform the maximum number of warranty services so as long as they don't run afoul of the manufacturers expectation of warranty costs they are rewarded for excessive repairs. The excessive repairs are passed on to new customers in the form of less standard equipment and increased sticker prices so as long as sales are at an acceptable level manufacturers have no incentive to call the dealers on it. When out of warranty cars come in the customer is treated as a blank check to be bled dry because most people won't question the repairs if the price seems reasonable. e: I forgot about the time that same Toyota dealer that left out the drain plug over-torqued my lug nuts so severely that they warped the brake rotors. I noticed the pulsing in the brakes and pulled the wheels off to replace the rotors and the studs snapped off with my hand wrench! They were so tight that the threads were visibly stretched. Oh and when I worked there as a lot attendant in high school a tech replaced a radiator but didn't reattach the fan shroud so when I started the vehicle the whole fan/shroud assembly exploded and destroyed the radiator.
  - dba7dba 10y ago
    One of my ex-coworker took his Toyota sedan to dealership for every single service need, like engine oil changes. And you know they advertise people should bring in cars to dealership despite the higher price because they do complete inspection in every visit. Guess what. In of his his visits to the dealership, the mechanic came around and pointed out with 'pride' that he had found completely worn out brake pads. His brake pads were worn out to the point where simple replacing replacing wasn't enough. Because the brake pads weren't replaced in time, the repair was going to be more complicated and $$. The thing is my coworker had been taking the car to the same dealership since he had bought it there like 3 years before. And apparently no one had inspected or bothered to inform customer about the worn out brake pads. Think about it. Elon Musk, the man who very possibly could put first humans on Mars, is annoyed with car dealerships enough to the point he refuses to sell his Teslas through dealers. He is going through needless hassle with sales channel of Tesla because he's sick of car dealerships.