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Sounds like you could have delayed sleep phase disorder/syndrome. It's just having a delayed circadian rhythm - not really a disorder except that it's hard to f

Sounds like you could have delayed sleep phase disorder/syndrome. It's just having a delayed circadian rhythm - not really a disorder except that it's hard to fit in with 'normal' schedules. I have a lot of issues with this (my circadian rhythm delay is pretty bad). My employer tolerates me coming in at 10am but even then I'm still suffering symptoms of sleep deprivation pretty constantly and don't feel like I can survive without sleeping in to midday on Saturdays and Sundays... It's a frustrating condition to have, because while research into circadian rhythms has generally found that you can't fight against your natural sleep cycle long-term without experiencing sleep deprivation, pretty much everyone who has a normal cycle will tell you that you just have to "be more disiplined", "just wake up the same time every day and you'll get into a better routine", etc. Even most GPs I've talked to aren't up-to-date with the latest research and it's been really hard to convince them to refer me to a sleep specialist! It's also especially bad at work, because management tend to be older (sleep cycles are usually at peak delay during adolescence, and then shift earlier as you age) and seem to have an impressive ability to not understand the condition. But if the science is to be believed, what people tell me is about as effective as telling a severely clinically depressed person to "just be happier." But even for people with more normal (average) cycles, one sleep scientist has suggested [1] that work shouldn't start until 10am, which would make people more productive and more alert. 1. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/staff-should-start-work-at-10am-to-avoid-torture-of-sleep-depriv/amp/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/staff-should-s...

louthy 10y ago
> pretty much everyone who has a normal cycle will tell you that you just have to "be more disciplined", "just wake up the same time every day and you'll get into a better routine", etc I feel your pain. Been there many times. The way I solved it was to become the boss. Daywalkers will never understand. Even if you're an owl rather than a lark it's looked down upon - and the standard trope of "you're just lazy" come out; but delayed sleep phase syndrome where it's possible to go in and out of sync with the day is a real killer for the regular office hours. I now get significantly more work done than at any time in my career because I sleep and awake when I want. Of course occasionally I need to be in-sync with someone (meetings, etc.). But it's relatively easy to have a few things to get in-sync with if I get good sleep the rest of the time.
- monksy 10y ago
  This many times over. I don't have problems with adapting ot new time zones. But it is difficult to get on a "standard awake/sleeping" schedule. It's not for a lack of trying.
nikdaheratik 10y ago
I had this exact situation and it became much worse when I was working at a job I hated and had trouble dragging myself into at the best of times. My spouse has a very good bedtime routine and forcing myself to at least follow that along with her helped, though I still have trouble getting to sleep as easily as she does. I don't think there is any one thing that helped me come out of it either. A few large changes, like a better job, and some moves like limiting caffeine intake after 3PM or so helped. I feel like it's stress, plus being a night owl to begin with, and maybe a light sleeper as well.
mattmanser 10y ago
I used to have the same problems as you, the exact same problems as you just described. I mean this without malice, are you sure you haven't diagnosed yourself with something funky when you're actually just bad at preparing for sleep? Using f.lux, exercising, no caffeine past 5 and establishing proper sleep hygiene fixed it for me, but it took me till my 30s to figure it out. Drinking alcohol seems to be very expensive on sleep cycles. With exercise I also found I needed to do it before 8pm or I would often still be very awake. The other thing is meditation to calm yourself down, I found that sometimes I would be breathing very fast when lying in bed, turns out I was wired still. And when I slip, I'm back to finding it harder to get to bed on time, 12:30, 1am, 1:30am, 2am, problems start with getting to work on time. Having to catch up at the weekends, sleeping till 12. Finding it incredibly hard to get going on Mondays. I also found when I had slipped with correct bedtime, melatonin helped me reset my sleep clock back to midnight. Taking it just one or two nights 45 mins before bedtime, will help me get back to bed at a right time. Apparantly the standard dose is 10x what you actually need (300 micro-g is enough, rather than 300 mg). I only use it once every few months.
- Terr_ 10y ago
  > Drinking alcohol seems to be very expensive on sleep cycles. I've heard that as it wears off there's a "rebound" effect, so that alcohol now means being more wakeful X hours later. I've never really been (or wanted to be) drunk enough to know for sure.
  - dzhiurgis 10y ago
    The biggest issue is when you stop drinking, sleep is terrible for few days. I found that valerian is helpful as it produces GABA chemotransmitter -- same thing that alcohol replaces.

louthy 10y ago

> pretty much everyone who has a normal cycle will tell you that you just have to "be more disciplined", "just wake up the same time every day and you'll get into a better routine", etc I feel your pain. Been there many times. The way I solved it was to become the boss. Daywalkers will never understand. Even if you're an owl rather than a lark it's looked down upon - and the standard trope of "you're just lazy" come out; but delayed sleep phase syndrome where it's possible to go in and out of sync with the day is a real killer for the regular office hours. I now get significantly more work done than at any time in my career because I sleep and awake when I want. Of course occasionally I need to be in-sync with someone (meetings, etc.). But it's relatively easy to have a few things to get in-sync with if I get good sleep the rest of the time.

monksy 10y ago
This many times over. I don't have problems with adapting ot new time zones. But it is difficult to get on a "standard awake/sleeping" schedule. It's not for a lack of trying.

nikdaheratik 10y ago

I had this exact situation and it became much worse when I was working at a job I hated and had trouble dragging myself into at the best of times. My spouse has a very good bedtime routine and forcing myself to at least follow that along with her helped, though I still have trouble getting to sleep as easily as she does. I don't think there is any one thing that helped me come out of it either. A few large changes, like a better job, and some moves like limiting caffeine intake after 3PM or so helped. I feel like it's stress, plus being a night owl to begin with, and maybe a light sleeper as well.

mattmanser 10y ago

I used to have the same problems as you, the exact same problems as you just described. I mean this without malice, are you sure you haven't diagnosed yourself with something funky when you're actually just bad at preparing for sleep? Using f.lux, exercising, no caffeine past 5 and establishing proper sleep hygiene fixed it for me, but it took me till my 30s to figure it out. Drinking alcohol seems to be very expensive on sleep cycles. With exercise I also found I needed to do it before 8pm or I would often still be very awake. The other thing is meditation to calm yourself down, I found that sometimes I would be breathing very fast when lying in bed, turns out I was wired still. And when I slip, I'm back to finding it harder to get to bed on time, 12:30, 1am, 1:30am, 2am, problems start with getting to work on time. Having to catch up at the weekends, sleeping till 12. Finding it incredibly hard to get going on Mondays. I also found when I had slipped with correct bedtime, melatonin helped me reset my sleep clock back to midnight. Taking it just one or two nights 45 mins before bedtime, will help me get back to bed at a right time. Apparantly the standard dose is 10x what you actually need (300 micro-g is enough, rather than 300 mg). I only use it once every few months.

Terr_ 10y ago
> Drinking alcohol seems to be very expensive on sleep cycles. I've heard that as it wears off there's a "rebound" effect, so that alcohol now means being more wakeful X hours later. I've never really been (or wanted to be) drunk enough to know for sure.
- dzhiurgis 10y ago
  The biggest issue is when you stop drinking, sleep is terrible for few days. I found that valerian is helpful as it produces GABA chemotransmitter -- same thing that alcohol replaces.