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In my opinion the most damning sentence in the article is this: This was the day of first bitter truth of Tesla: even you have a new car covered by war

by kylec 10y ago

In my opinion the most damning sentence in the article is this: This was the day of first bitter truth of Tesla: even you have a new car covered by warranty, you will need to wait in line for a few days to get it checked up. This says one of two things to me, both of them bad. Either there are so many Teslas with issues that the technicians are constantly booked up days in advance, or Tesla doesn't care about providing even adequate customer service for customers with serious issues like this. In reality, I'll bet that both are at least somewhat true. I get that not every car that rolls off the production line can be perfect (though I suspect that Tesla's defect/lemon rate is a lot higher than most other manufacturers), but at least the other established manufacturers have a network in place to remedy issues like this when they arrive, and to minimize the negative impact to the customer.

taneq 10y ago
The overall picture I'm getting of Tesla is that they have great tech, are very innovative, but they have a hell of an attitude problem. It's not like the guy was making it up, they had clearly-detailed logs of the problems and the car was provably misbehaving. Even though in the end they did do the right thing, it would have been far better handled if they'd simply offered a replacement the moment the (just freshly checked and declared good) car refused to start.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  You're getting an overall picture from one story?
  - taneq 10y ago
    Yes, of course, because this is the only story I've ever read about Tesla, I never even heard of them before this post. ...of course not.
- Lightbody 10y ago
  Not my experience at all. The service people have been a pleasure. My car has had glitches but everyone has been great and most of my issues eventually got resolved. It's just normal growing pains you expect from a new startup.
- sp0rk 10y ago
  > It's not like the guy was making it up, they had clearly-detailed logs of the problems and the car was provably misbehaving. The fact that problems exist says nothing of what caused them. I don't imagine it would be difficult for a competitor to intentionally damage a Tesla in a way that they could make a blog post like this about it. I'm not generally conspiracy-minded, but I feel like this is something worth considering when you're reading an article that seems to be put up on a throwaway LiveJournal account by somebody that doesn't link to any of their other social media accounts or websites.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Don't worry - I guarantee if this is a hit piece, and even if not - Tesla will make a blog post listing specifics from the vehicle telemetry and so forth to paint the (ex-) owner in a bad light. It wouldn't be the first time they've done that.
  - taneq 10y ago
    But that's precisely why they should have done a recall-and-replace. Funny error message? Intermittent fault? No worries, give it a thorough looking over. Find nothing. Okay, give it back to the customer. More weird error messages followed by a persistent fault? The prudent thing at this point is to instantly swap out the car, and this time go through it with a fine toothed comb. Now you're not just looking for a dodgy cable. You're looking for one of three things: 1) An as-yet-unknown design flaw, which needs to be documented for maintainers and fixed in future revisions. 2) A manufacturing defect, which should be investigated by quality control and again documented in case it reoccurs. 3) Malfeasance, in which case you want to preserve any possible evidence, finger prints on parts, damaged tamper seals etc. It's not just about good customer service, it's about finding out exactly what happened.
    - martin_a 10y ago
      > Funny error message? Intermittent fault? No worries, give it a thorough looking over. Find nothing. Okay, give it back to the customer. Well said. This might be a problem, in a state of mind way, when you think of your car as a computer but not so much a car. Have you tried turning it off and on again? No? Well, do so and the errors will go away. Not really a good attitude for a car manufacturer.
coredog64 10y ago
This is about the same level of service I would expect from Toyota should I buy a Corolla or Camry. I would expect better were I to buy a Lexus LS (random example in the same price range)
- Lightbody 10y ago
  I own a Lexus and Tesla and while nothing has been bad with Lexus service, my experience has been better customer service from Tesla (more friendly, better loaners, more flexible scheduling, etc). Now, on the other hand: my Lexus has had a lot fewer issues.
  - base698 10y ago
    People are finally starting to see that, "an electric car has fewer parts so is more reliable." Is but marketing speak. Even if it's less parts it's still got plenty enough to cause a plethora of technical issues.
    - intrasight 10y ago
      True, but internal combustion engines have had decades to be refined. Another few years of refinement of electric vehicles will, I think, tilt the reliability balance.
    - Lightbody 10y ago
      Actually, as an owner of both I tend to agree the core _is_ more reliable. With the exception of a minor drivetrain issue (which took a couple hours to fix), all the issues I've had have been fit and finish issues, such as squeaks and groans, which can happen regardless of whether it's electric or ICE. Tesla has also fixed almost all of them, the latest round of fixes coming 3.5 years later and all part of free warranty work. Compared to the ICE cars I've owned, which have had all sorts of issues with the fuel injector, transmission, carburetor, etc.
  - GreenPlastic 10y ago
    Owned BMWs and Infinitis before and Tesla Service is way better.
cloudwalking 10y ago
I bought a new BMW in 2012. I've had a lot of problems with it (including an entire new engine, covered under warranty), and I've always had to wait for BMW to service it. The wait is anywhere from a few days (car towed in and nobody looked for a few days) to two weeks (30k and 60k mile maintenance). I feel like everybody is being hyper-critical of Tesla because most people dislike the auto industry and see Tesla as a major disruptor of the status quo.
- gkop 10y ago
  At least with BMW, if you can afford to pay for service, despite being in-warranty, you have the option of going to an independent shop.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    My car is out of the factory warranty now but I purchased a third party warranty that allows me to go to independent mechanics. My local dealership has a 100% failure rate with my car. Every service action they took has resulted in an egregious misdiagnosis or future failure of a part due to improper service. I'm not sure if I will ever buy a new BMW unless I can be reimbursed for the factory warranty that I will never use. The single most dangerous place to take your BMW is a BMW service location.
    - disillusioned 10y ago
      God, this. I had my car drift one month out of warranty when the alternator failed at 45,000 miles. Was not happy. Was MUCH LESS HAPPY when they called me to tell me "this is weird, but the B post under the hood has melted. Do you know anything about that?" "Do YOU know anything about that? I never jumped the car. I drove it to your driveway and you told me you had to jump it to get it into the service bay." "Well, it's about $600 to fix." "That sucks for you. You guys nuked it. I dropped it off with a working B post. See: HOW DO YOU THINK YOU MOVED IT FROM YOUR DRIVEWAY?" "Oh. Well, we'll take care of it this time." I haven't ever left a BMW service center NOT feeling like I was being fleeced. I did have my Model S throw a 12 V Battery Needs Service error 3,000 miles in. Called them on the way to work, they remote diagnosed that it was NOT the HVLV connector (Tesla's take on the alternator, effectively), and offered to have a Ranger out to my office to swap the battery later that afternoon. Done and done. Though I've heard plenty of complaints for very long waits for more complex fixes, I've also heard of those for every manufacturer.
giarc 10y ago
I own a GM vehicle in a large city (1 million +). There are plenty of GM dealerships. Whenever I call, they typically offer an appointment time about 1 week out. So I'm not sure I totally believe the argument.
bcrescimanno 10y ago
My first experience with Tesla service was when my car created an alert telling me that there was a coolant leak. When I called them, they told me that it didn't make sense as the car had no radiator. I had to send them a picture of the warning on my dash before they realized that I must be telling the truth. When I brought the car in to the service center in Sunnyvale, they told me they were backed up and that they probably wouldn't be able to look at it until the end of the day. At the end of the 2nd day, having heard nothing, I called them and they told me they wouldn't be able to even look at it until the end of the week. It took me half a dozen angry phone calls to the service manager to convince them to look at it the following day, determine that it needed a new part that had to be ordered, and order the part. All told, the car was with them just over a week. About 2 weeks later, my AC stopped working (South Bay Area Summer--hooray!) Again, they tell me it'll be days before they can look at it. All told, from the moment I drove out of the Fremont factory in December 2013 as a happy customer, Tesla the company did everything in their power to lose me culminating in a bait and switch offer on my car after 3 years. They want people to believe they are different. They're not. :(
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  This sounds so bizzare to an European. Here you leave the car at the dealer, go to the reception and ask if they will be providing replacement car or have a preferred rental company.
  - spaceisballer 10y ago
    I'm in the US and I always get a loaner car, even when I drop it off for an oil change. I'm in no hurry they can give it back to me the next day.
  - alistairSH 10y ago
    In the US, there is no obligation on the part of the dealer/service-station to provide a replacement car while warranty repairs are being performed. Many of the luxury brands, and some of the larger dealers, provide this as a value-added service. When my Lexus goes in for service (even just an oil change), they provide a new Lexus for the day. For my VW, the dealer provides a car from a rental service. When I owned a Jeep, I was SOL during service, having to schedule my own transport.

by kylec 10y ago

taneq 10y ago

The overall picture I'm getting of Tesla is that they have great tech, are very innovative, but they have a hell of an attitude problem. It's not like the guy was making it up, they had clearly-detailed logs of the problems and the car was provably misbehaving. Even though in the end they did do the right thing, it would have been far better handled if they'd simply offered a replacement the moment the (just freshly checked and declared good) car refused to start.

greglindahl 10y ago
You're getting an overall picture from one story?
- taneq 10y ago
  Yes, of course, because this is the only story I've ever read about Tesla, I never even heard of them before this post. ...of course not.
Lightbody 10y ago
Not my experience at all. The service people have been a pleasure. My car has had glitches but everyone has been great and most of my issues eventually got resolved. It's just normal growing pains you expect from a new startup.
sp0rk 10y ago
> It's not like the guy was making it up, they had clearly-detailed logs of the problems and the car was provably misbehaving. The fact that problems exist says nothing of what caused them. I don't imagine it would be difficult for a competitor to intentionally damage a Tesla in a way that they could make a blog post like this about it. I'm not generally conspiracy-minded, but I feel like this is something worth considering when you're reading an article that seems to be put up on a throwaway LiveJournal account by somebody that doesn't link to any of their other social media accounts or websites.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Don't worry - I guarantee if this is a hit piece, and even if not - Tesla will make a blog post listing specifics from the vehicle telemetry and so forth to paint the (ex-) owner in a bad light. It wouldn't be the first time they've done that.
- taneq 10y ago
  But that's precisely why they should have done a recall-and-replace. Funny error message? Intermittent fault? No worries, give it a thorough looking over. Find nothing. Okay, give it back to the customer. More weird error messages followed by a persistent fault? The prudent thing at this point is to instantly swap out the car, and this time go through it with a fine toothed comb. Now you're not just looking for a dodgy cable. You're looking for one of three things: 1) An as-yet-unknown design flaw, which needs to be documented for maintainers and fixed in future revisions. 2) A manufacturing defect, which should be investigated by quality control and again documented in case it reoccurs. 3) Malfeasance, in which case you want to preserve any possible evidence, finger prints on parts, damaged tamper seals etc. It's not just about good customer service, it's about finding out exactly what happened.
  - martin_a 10y ago
    > Funny error message? Intermittent fault? No worries, give it a thorough looking over. Find nothing. Okay, give it back to the customer. Well said. This might be a problem, in a state of mind way, when you think of your car as a computer but not so much a car. Have you tried turning it off and on again? No? Well, do so and the errors will go away. Not really a good attitude for a car manufacturer.

coredog64 10y ago

This is about the same level of service I would expect from Toyota should I buy a Corolla or Camry. I would expect better were I to buy a Lexus LS (random example in the same price range)

Lightbody 10y ago
I own a Lexus and Tesla and while nothing has been bad with Lexus service, my experience has been better customer service from Tesla (more friendly, better loaners, more flexible scheduling, etc). Now, on the other hand: my Lexus has had a lot fewer issues.
- base698 10y ago
  People are finally starting to see that, "an electric car has fewer parts so is more reliable." Is but marketing speak. Even if it's less parts it's still got plenty enough to cause a plethora of technical issues.
  - intrasight 10y ago
    True, but internal combustion engines have had decades to be refined. Another few years of refinement of electric vehicles will, I think, tilt the reliability balance.
  - Lightbody 10y ago
    Actually, as an owner of both I tend to agree the core _is_ more reliable. With the exception of a minor drivetrain issue (which took a couple hours to fix), all the issues I've had have been fit and finish issues, such as squeaks and groans, which can happen regardless of whether it's electric or ICE. Tesla has also fixed almost all of them, the latest round of fixes coming 3.5 years later and all part of free warranty work. Compared to the ICE cars I've owned, which have had all sorts of issues with the fuel injector, transmission, carburetor, etc.
- GreenPlastic 10y ago
  Owned BMWs and Infinitis before and Tesla Service is way better.

cloudwalking 10y ago

I bought a new BMW in 2012. I've had a lot of problems with it (including an entire new engine, covered under warranty), and I've always had to wait for BMW to service it. The wait is anywhere from a few days (car towed in and nobody looked for a few days) to two weeks (30k and 60k mile maintenance). I feel like everybody is being hyper-critical of Tesla because most people dislike the auto industry and see Tesla as a major disruptor of the status quo.

gkop 10y ago
At least with BMW, if you can afford to pay for service, despite being in-warranty, you have the option of going to an independent shop.
- mulmen 10y ago
  My car is out of the factory warranty now but I purchased a third party warranty that allows me to go to independent mechanics. My local dealership has a 100% failure rate with my car. Every service action they took has resulted in an egregious misdiagnosis or future failure of a part due to improper service. I'm not sure if I will ever buy a new BMW unless I can be reimbursed for the factory warranty that I will never use. The single most dangerous place to take your BMW is a BMW service location.
  - disillusioned 10y ago
    God, this. I had my car drift one month out of warranty when the alternator failed at 45,000 miles. Was not happy. Was MUCH LESS HAPPY when they called me to tell me "this is weird, but the B post under the hood has melted. Do you know anything about that?" "Do YOU know anything about that? I never jumped the car. I drove it to your driveway and you told me you had to jump it to get it into the service bay." "Well, it's about $600 to fix." "That sucks for you. You guys nuked it. I dropped it off with a working B post. See: HOW DO YOU THINK YOU MOVED IT FROM YOUR DRIVEWAY?" "Oh. Well, we'll take care of it this time." I haven't ever left a BMW service center NOT feeling like I was being fleeced. I did have my Model S throw a 12 V Battery Needs Service error 3,000 miles in. Called them on the way to work, they remote diagnosed that it was NOT the HVLV connector (Tesla's take on the alternator, effectively), and offered to have a Ranger out to my office to swap the battery later that afternoon. Done and done. Though I've heard plenty of complaints for very long waits for more complex fixes, I've also heard of those for every manufacturer.

giarc 10y ago

I own a GM vehicle in a large city (1 million +). There are plenty of GM dealerships. Whenever I call, they typically offer an appointment time about 1 week out. So I'm not sure I totally believe the argument.

bcrescimanno 10y ago

My first experience with Tesla service was when my car created an alert telling me that there was a coolant leak. When I called them, they told me that it didn't make sense as the car had no radiator. I had to send them a picture of the warning on my dash before they realized that I must be telling the truth. When I brought the car in to the service center in Sunnyvale, they told me they were backed up and that they probably wouldn't be able to look at it until the end of the day. At the end of the 2nd day, having heard nothing, I called them and they told me they wouldn't be able to even look at it until the end of the week. It took me half a dozen angry phone calls to the service manager to convince them to look at it the following day, determine that it needed a new part that had to be ordered, and order the part. All told, the car was with them just over a week. About 2 weeks later, my AC stopped working (South Bay Area Summer--hooray!) Again, they tell me it'll be days before they can look at it. All told, from the moment I drove out of the Fremont factory in December 2013 as a happy customer, Tesla the company did everything in their power to lose me culminating in a bait and switch offer on my car after 3 years. They want people to believe they are different. They're not. :(

rasz_pl 10y ago
This sounds so bizzare to an European. Here you leave the car at the dealer, go to the reception and ask if they will be providing replacement car or have a preferred rental company.
- spaceisballer 10y ago
  I'm in the US and I always get a loaner car, even when I drop it off for an oil change. I'm in no hurry they can give it back to me the next day.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  In the US, there is no obligation on the part of the dealer/service-station to provide a replacement car while warranty repairs are being performed. Many of the luxury brands, and some of the larger dealers, provide this as a value-added service. When my Lexus goes in for service (even just an oil change), they provide a new Lexus for the day. For my VW, the dealer provides a car from a rental service. When I owned a Jeep, I was SOL during service, having to schedule my own transport.