5 ms·

How?

slededit 10y ago
Because if they couldn't get me, they'd be forced to hire the next best person from my interview cohort. That would reduce the pool available to all the other companies.
- serge2k 10y ago
  Or keep looking until they find someone else. They aren't just going to hire someone unqualified. If they find someone qualified they will also try to find a place for them, because it's hard to find qualified people.
  - slededit 10y ago
    Ultimately they need people. At some point they will be forced to hire somebody. This happens today with C/C++ knowledge. Ideally somebody joining to work on a massive C++ code base would know the language. 10 years ago it was practically a requirement to get hired. But very few people are coming out of university with that knowledge these days. Interview tip: Come in knowing C++ and your interviewer will be impressed (assuming the team uses it).
- openmosix 10y ago
  Or move the entire department overseas.
adventurer 10y ago
Armchair economist here. More workers = less competition. Competition affects salary. Simple supply and demand? All of the companies who spoke out like Amazon, Apple, and Google NEED workers to fill those roles to run business, and rely on them heavily because there isn't enough data scientists, or engineers for example, in the U.S. or the world, for that matter.
geofft 10y ago
Because the demand for good workers doesn't go away when the supply of good workers gets decreased. To be clear, I am supportive of immigrants working whatever jobs they want to work and that people will hire them for (and I'd argue that the free market is also supportive of this), I'm just noting that people have a financial motivation to keep people more competent than them out of the labor pool. (Unless, of course, the replacement of competent workers with incompetent ones causes the economy to shrink, which now that I think about it is pretty likely.)
losteric 10y ago
In theory, increasing the supply of labor lowers it's value. In practice, I'm unconvinced. Tech companies succeed when they put quality over quantity, and demand for high-quality engineers simply exceeds the quantity put out by our universities. We aren't hiring H1Bs for cheap labor, we're poaching the best from other countries. Hiring more lower-quality local talent is not equivalent.
- openmosix 10y ago
  There is a reason why these companies have international branches. Talent leaders are always monitoring international talent pools. If they cannot provide enough supply for an office - and another office has enough of it, granted the quality is high - they'll just move the next projects to the other office. And smaller companies are starting to embrace remote work. So, no more borders and visas.
analbeads 10y ago
Increasing the supply of labor, and accepting lower wages and worse working conditions than natives. Edit because I hit the post limit, in response to a comment on the idea that they are mostly poaching top talent from other countries: In reality, most are either low pay low skill workers for contracting companies like Infosys (largest employers of H1Bs), or fresh grads that are cheaper and less risky to train (because they, in a sense, own them). Edit edit for serge2k: If you're so great, then I'm sure they won't mind paying extra for you when the visa party is over.
serge2k 10y ago
because apparently we (people on visas) are getting horribly underpaid. Trump supporters keep trumpeting this despite the fact that I don't remember showing any of them my pay stubs. I'm sure Brin showing up in person at the protests was totally because a couple hundred google employees getting screwed is going to drastically raise salaries. As for people less competent then me. Maybe they should focus more on improving their skills than on how they are getting fucked by immigrants. Guess what, you'll still be whiny losers if they toss out the H-1Bs tomorrow. You'll still be whiny losers if they start tossing out green card holders. You know why? Because you whine instead of going out and figuring out what you actually need to do in order to get a job.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  That was a nice comment. Just like rednecks yelling dumb immigrants fix your own country instead of coming here. In the end, all the people, left or right, are dumb ignorant, bigoted.
  - geofft 10y ago
    Except that it's quite not true that all people are dumb, ignorant, and bigoted. Dumbness (or more precisely intelligence) has a distribution over the population, and selective ignorance and bigotry in certain ways is correlated with politics. In particular, eligibility for work visas actively selects for non-dumbness: you have to get hired for a job. Eligibility for birthright citizenship does not. So there are solid reasons to believe that immigrants to a country (any country) are statistically less dumb than native citizens. Immigrants also necessarily have more life experiences and more personal knowledge of people of different backgrounds and origins, which makes them less likely to be ignorant and bigoted, too.
    - angry-hacker 10y ago
      Statistically you can guess all sort of things, like whites are smarter than other races etc. All I was saying is that the parent comment was racist.

How?

Because if they couldn't get me, they'd be forced to hire the next best person from my interview cohort. That would reduce the pool available to all the other companies.

serge2k 10y ago
Or keep looking until they find someone else. They aren't just going to hire someone unqualified. If they find someone qualified they will also try to find a place for them, because it's hard to find qualified people.
- slededit 10y ago
  Ultimately they need people. At some point they will be forced to hire somebody. This happens today with C/C++ knowledge. Ideally somebody joining to work on a massive C++ code base would know the language. 10 years ago it was practically a requirement to get hired. But very few people are coming out of university with that knowledge these days. Interview tip: Come in knowing C++ and your interviewer will be impressed (assuming the team uses it).
openmosix 10y ago
Or move the entire department overseas.

adventurer 10y ago

Armchair economist here. More workers = less competition. Competition affects salary. Simple supply and demand? All of the companies who spoke out like Amazon, Apple, and Google NEED workers to fill those roles to run business, and rely on them heavily because there isn't enough data scientists, or engineers for example, in the U.S. or the world, for that matter.

geofft 10y ago

Because the demand for good workers doesn't go away when the supply of good workers gets decreased. To be clear, I am supportive of immigrants working whatever jobs they want to work and that people will hire them for (and I'd argue that the free market is also supportive of this), I'm just noting that people have a financial motivation to keep people more competent than them out of the labor pool. (Unless, of course, the replacement of competent workers with incompetent ones causes the economy to shrink, which now that I think about it is pretty likely.)

losteric 10y ago

In theory, increasing the supply of labor lowers it's value. In practice, I'm unconvinced. Tech companies succeed when they put quality over quantity, and demand for high-quality engineers simply exceeds the quantity put out by our universities. We aren't hiring H1Bs for cheap labor, we're poaching the best from other countries. Hiring more lower-quality local talent is not equivalent.

openmosix 10y ago
There is a reason why these companies have international branches. Talent leaders are always monitoring international talent pools. If they cannot provide enough supply for an office - and another office has enough of it, granted the quality is high - they'll just move the next projects to the other office. And smaller companies are starting to embrace remote work. So, no more borders and visas.

analbeads 10y ago

Increasing the supply of labor, and accepting lower wages and worse working conditions than natives. Edit because I hit the post limit, in response to a comment on the idea that they are mostly poaching top talent from other countries: In reality, most are either low pay low skill workers for contracting companies like Infosys (largest employers of H1Bs), or fresh grads that are cheaper and less risky to train (because they, in a sense, own them). Edit edit for serge2k: If you're so great, then I'm sure they won't mind paying extra for you when the visa party is over.

serge2k 10y ago

because apparently we (people on visas) are getting horribly underpaid. Trump supporters keep trumpeting this despite the fact that I don't remember showing any of them my pay stubs. I'm sure Brin showing up in person at the protests was totally because a couple hundred google employees getting screwed is going to drastically raise salaries. As for people less competent then me. Maybe they should focus more on improving their skills than on how they are getting fucked by immigrants. Guess what, you'll still be whiny losers if they toss out the H-1Bs tomorrow. You'll still be whiny losers if they start tossing out green card holders. You know why? Because you whine instead of going out and figuring out what you actually need to do in order to get a job.

angry-hacker 10y ago
That was a nice comment. Just like rednecks yelling dumb immigrants fix your own country instead of coming here. In the end, all the people, left or right, are dumb ignorant, bigoted.
- geofft 10y ago
  Except that it's quite not true that all people are dumb, ignorant, and bigoted. Dumbness (or more precisely intelligence) has a distribution over the population, and selective ignorance and bigotry in certain ways is correlated with politics. In particular, eligibility for work visas actively selects for non-dumbness: you have to get hired for a job. Eligibility for birthright citizenship does not. So there are solid reasons to believe that immigrants to a country (any country) are statistically less dumb than native citizens. Immigrants also necessarily have more life experiences and more personal knowledge of people of different backgrounds and origins, which makes them less likely to be ignorant and bigoted, too.
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    Statistically you can guess all sort of things, like whites are smarter than other races etc. All I was saying is that the parent comment was racist.