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Thanks for telling this story. The car business is HARD. I, for one, hope Tesla makes it across the chasm from early adopters like me to the mainstream. There'

Thanks for telling this story. The car business is HARD. I, for one, hope Tesla makes it across the chasm from early adopters like me to the mainstream. There's a reason for the existence of dealerships: they are local businesses that local jurisdictions can hold accountable for such things as lemon law refunds. If Tesla wants out from under the dealership laws, they better handle this kind of problem more professionally from the factory. They also need to grow their corporate PR and communications to be bigger than a single Twitter account if they're going to appeal to a mass market. All that being said, I really like my Model S. I hope they make it.

sk5t 10y ago
> There's a reason for the existence of dealerships: they are local businesses that local jurisdictions can hold accountable for such things as lemon law refunds. I'm not sure this argument holds water. Civil and criminal law hold all sorts of corporate entities accountable without forcing them to franchise out the business of sales and service. We have a sort of "protected status" for car dealers now in order to prevent the manufacturers from squashing them unfairly after setting up local markets and goodwill.
- mulmen 10y ago
  A franchised BMW dealership tried to charge me $15,000.00 for a new engine. It turns out the problem was two spark plus that they installed improperly. Their diagnosis turned out to be entirely manufactured. The idea that franchised dealerships somehow improve customer service is laughable.
  - sk5t 10y ago
    For an out-of-warranty German car, your best bet is the independent mechanics that the local car club members like. For a BMW, maybe start with the BMWCCA-approved safety inspection shops on the track day prep list.
    - mulmen 10y ago
      Yes this is great advice, I have since found an independent shop that I trust. They are actually the place I went for a second opinion on the engine replacement. I also found a third-party warranty company that does not require service at the dealership.
    - overcast 10y ago
      Yep, been taking mine to the local mom and pop BMW racing club guy shop since day one. The ONE and ONLY time I took my car to the dealer for a free oil change. They didn't put the oil cap back on, sprayed everywhere in the engine as I was leaving, and months later I found out they didn't replace the drain plug access panel underneath. Can't handle oil changes, I sure as shit am not bringing it there for something serious. Oh, forgot one more thing. They didn't tighten down the coolant cap fully, so that eventually seeped out enough to set off the coolant level alarms.
      - mulmen 10y ago
        I took mine in for an oil change and they also removed that drain plug panel. In addition they broke the plastic cover for the cabin air filter by over-tightening the bolt that holds it on. It's a staggering level of incompetence.
        overcast 10y ago
        Yeh it's crazy, and you reminded me about the coolant cap they didn't fully tighten as well! All things you find out about six months later, when alarms go off. No way to every hold anyone accountable.
        mulmen 10y ago
        I changed the oil myself the next time and they had the filter cover torqued down so tight I had to make a wrench out of an old timing belt to get enough leverage to remove it. The cap has a torque spec printed right on it that is much lower than whatever the dealer tightened it to. The amazing thing isn't just the degree to which they make mistakes it's the frequency. More often than not they are doing the job wrong.
  - louprado 10y ago
    I sold a near perfect used Lincoln only to get an angry call from the buyer a day later claiming I sold him a lemon. After he calmed down he told me he had gone to the dealership to have the spark plugs changed. The dealership caused this problem. Given how easy it is to properly gap a spark plug, I can't help but think this is a scam when it is overlooked. But the scam only works if you don't get the gap too far out of spec. The victim should come back a month later, not a day later.
    - mulmen 10y ago
      Completely agreed. I'm not sure what the solution is. I like the idea of Tesla owning their own service because they can more directly control the quality but that only works if they actually want to provide good service.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    The manufacturer and dealer incentives are somewhat misaligned. The former has an incentive to portray its product as a stress-free and worry-free purchase, as most people are not thrilled about buying a clunker that has consistent issues. Highest mark of success here is the complete lack of future customer interaction - no complaints, no warranty claims, no recalls, no class-action lawsuits. The latter one does not get paid until the customer comes in for service, and the higher the frequency, the better.
    - mulmen 10y ago
      That's exactly right. I don't know what metrics are used inside the dealership but I suspect they encourage this type of behavior, perhaps unintentionally. Say you have two service writers. One is highly competent, motivated and puts the customer's interests first, they try to properly diagnose the problem and fix it the first time. They will also strive to learn from any mistakes so they are not repeated. The other doesn't really care and just does the easy thing. Throw parts at the problem and if you can get the manufacturer or the customer to pick up the tab then all the better. When it comes time for promotions what gets considered? Is it minimal repairs, customer satisfaction or is it dollars in the register? It could be some combination of all of course but I think at the end of the day it is dollars as long as the customers in general have a perception they are being cared for. If that means telling them a repair will be free from BMW that's probably even better than not having a problem at all. A customer may think "Wow the dealer really helped me out of a jam there!" even though the problem never existed. Over time this means that the thoughtful and customer-focused service writers get pushed out of dealership service departments for a lack of performance. In fact the service writer at my independent shop used to work at the dealer and left.
  - madshiva 10y ago
    my BMW broke too. one of the turbo fail and rejected all in the motor also one flap goes to the motor. I had finish to pay the leasing after 3 years and voilà you get nothing, just lost 15000$. The car had 140'000km, a BMW 123d. A lot of serie 1 get the same problem. I had to wait and town the car to my country (800km), lost 3 days of vacation. I hate car now and all the service that goes around.
walid 10y ago
The reason dealerships exist has nothing to do with accountability. Google it.
Shivetya 10y ago
Dealerships as a whole are not going to treat a customer like the person in the story above. They live and die on customer referrals and there are many rewards from manufacturers for being stand out. This includes servicing vehicles not purchased from them and at times even different brands. The Tesla model irks me because they are also pretty much keeping all repair work in house; disclosure I work for a major parts/repair/distribution company; and this limits both customer choice but also valuable information on reliability that all consumers should be able to get access too. That letter at the end looks exactly like a corporate guilt acceptance letter you see in the news. We settle but do not plead guilty. That just doesn't cut it in a consumer oriented industry like auto sales and I really don't see how Tesla will be able to defend their dealer less strategy with the III should problems shake out this way. If anything the noise on the internet should be loud.

sk5t 10y ago

> There's a reason for the existence of dealerships: they are local businesses that local jurisdictions can hold accountable for such things as lemon law refunds. I'm not sure this argument holds water. Civil and criminal law hold all sorts of corporate entities accountable without forcing them to franchise out the business of sales and service. We have a sort of "protected status" for car dealers now in order to prevent the manufacturers from squashing them unfairly after setting up local markets and goodwill.

mulmen 10y ago
A franchised BMW dealership tried to charge me $15,000.00 for a new engine. It turns out the problem was two spark plus that they installed improperly. Their diagnosis turned out to be entirely manufactured. The idea that franchised dealerships somehow improve customer service is laughable.
- sk5t 10y ago
  For an out-of-warranty German car, your best bet is the independent mechanics that the local car club members like. For a BMW, maybe start with the BMWCCA-approved safety inspection shops on the track day prep list.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    Yes this is great advice, I have since found an independent shop that I trust. They are actually the place I went for a second opinion on the engine replacement. I also found a third-party warranty company that does not require service at the dealership.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Yep, been taking mine to the local mom and pop BMW racing club guy shop since day one. The ONE and ONLY time I took my car to the dealer for a free oil change. They didn't put the oil cap back on, sprayed everywhere in the engine as I was leaving, and months later I found out they didn't replace the drain plug access panel underneath. Can't handle oil changes, I sure as shit am not bringing it there for something serious. Oh, forgot one more thing. They didn't tighten down the coolant cap fully, so that eventually seeped out enough to set off the coolant level alarms.
    - mulmen 10y ago
      I took mine in for an oil change and they also removed that drain plug panel. In addition they broke the plastic cover for the cabin air filter by over-tightening the bolt that holds it on. It's a staggering level of incompetence.
      - overcast 10y ago
        Yeh it's crazy, and you reminded me about the coolant cap they didn't fully tighten as well! All things you find out about six months later, when alarms go off. No way to every hold anyone accountable.
        mulmen 10y ago
        I changed the oil myself the next time and they had the filter cover torqued down so tight I had to make a wrench out of an old timing belt to get enough leverage to remove it. The cap has a torque spec printed right on it that is much lower than whatever the dealer tightened it to. The amazing thing isn't just the degree to which they make mistakes it's the frequency. More often than not they are doing the job wrong.
- louprado 10y ago
  I sold a near perfect used Lincoln only to get an angry call from the buyer a day later claiming I sold him a lemon. After he calmed down he told me he had gone to the dealership to have the spark plugs changed. The dealership caused this problem. Given how easy it is to properly gap a spark plug, I can't help but think this is a scam when it is overlooked. But the scam only works if you don't get the gap too far out of spec. The victim should come back a month later, not a day later.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    Completely agreed. I'm not sure what the solution is. I like the idea of Tesla owning their own service because they can more directly control the quality but that only works if they actually want to provide good service.
- prostoalex 10y ago
  The manufacturer and dealer incentives are somewhat misaligned. The former has an incentive to portray its product as a stress-free and worry-free purchase, as most people are not thrilled about buying a clunker that has consistent issues. Highest mark of success here is the complete lack of future customer interaction - no complaints, no warranty claims, no recalls, no class-action lawsuits. The latter one does not get paid until the customer comes in for service, and the higher the frequency, the better.
  - mulmen 10y ago
    That's exactly right. I don't know what metrics are used inside the dealership but I suspect they encourage this type of behavior, perhaps unintentionally. Say you have two service writers. One is highly competent, motivated and puts the customer's interests first, they try to properly diagnose the problem and fix it the first time. They will also strive to learn from any mistakes so they are not repeated. The other doesn't really care and just does the easy thing. Throw parts at the problem and if you can get the manufacturer or the customer to pick up the tab then all the better. When it comes time for promotions what gets considered? Is it minimal repairs, customer satisfaction or is it dollars in the register? It could be some combination of all of course but I think at the end of the day it is dollars as long as the customers in general have a perception they are being cared for. If that means telling them a repair will be free from BMW that's probably even better than not having a problem at all. A customer may think "Wow the dealer really helped me out of a jam there!" even though the problem never existed. Over time this means that the thoughtful and customer-focused service writers get pushed out of dealership service departments for a lack of performance. In fact the service writer at my independent shop used to work at the dealer and left.
- madshiva 10y ago
  my BMW broke too. one of the turbo fail and rejected all in the motor also one flap goes to the motor. I had finish to pay the leasing after 3 years and voilà you get nothing, just lost 15000$. The car had 140'000km, a BMW 123d. A lot of serie 1 get the same problem. I had to wait and town the car to my country (800km), lost 3 days of vacation. I hate car now and all the service that goes around.

walid 10y ago

The reason dealerships exist has nothing to do with accountability. Google it.

Shivetya 10y ago

Dealerships as a whole are not going to treat a customer like the person in the story above. They live and die on customer referrals and there are many rewards from manufacturers for being stand out. This includes servicing vehicles not purchased from them and at times even different brands. The Tesla model irks me because they are also pretty much keeping all repair work in house; disclosure I work for a major parts/repair/distribution company; and this limits both customer choice but also valuable information on reliability that all consumers should be able to get access too. That letter at the end looks exactly like a corporate guilt acceptance letter you see in the news. We settle but do not plead guilty. That just doesn't cut it in a consumer oriented industry like auto sales and I really don't see how Tesla will be able to defend their dealer less strategy with the III should problems shake out this way. If anything the noise on the internet should be loud.