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I have another request. (You didn't limit us to one) The article very carefully avoids discussing actual hazard level or a comparison, merely a measured numbe

by VLM 10y ago

I have another request. (You didn't limit us to one) The article very carefully avoids discussing actual hazard level or a comparison, merely a measured number exceeded a beancounter's number. Its irresponsible to make policy decisions without knowing the actual risk level... so inform us? I realize its difficult to compare ochem toxicity between compounds, famously there are obscure reactions where nothing interesting happens to anyone except pregnant women or unborn children, obscure herbicides that slaughter fish but are otherwise mostly harmless, obscure herbicides that selectively kill broadleaf plants, etc. None the less ... would it be possible to put the risk in a form people (perhaps incorrectly) think they can understand and manage? Something like fill in the blank: "The risk of drinking unfiltered tapwater at the EPA limit on a normal daily basis is roughly as dangerous to your health as consuming X ounces of 100 proof ethanol per day" I'm curious if EPA defined contaminated tapwater is as risky as drinking four bottles of wine per day WRT cancer risk or if its more like sniffing an open bottle of N.A. beer.

matt4077 10y ago
I tried to find some data on that, but it appears that there is no data available showing definite health hazards of these compounds. Getting such data can be difficult. Animal models can often be wrong: the toxicity may be specific to humans, or the damage may require exposure over time frames than the animals' life span, or it only manifests under rare circumstances (i. e. interactions with drugs). The best data you can get may be from people who were exposed to the compounds unusually high degrees, usually because they worked with them. But that group of people may be too small, or not diverse enough (we've long avoided exposing pregnant women to industrial chemicals), or the nature of their work exposed them to different chemicals muddling any results. You say "Its irresponsible to make policy decisions without knowing the actual risk level", but I'd say that you can't not make a decision: taking the view that a chemical is safe until proven otherwise is as much a decision as the opposite. The EU has started to assume new compounds to be dangerous until proven otherwise – I believe the US may still be doing the opposite. Ethanol (i. e. alcohol) is also a particularly bad unit of measurement, considering its effects on human health are not just somewhat disputed, but apparently highly unusual. There is quite a lot of evidence for beneficial effects of alcohol, possibly even at rather high dosages (although the effects on cancer, which you mention specifically, are probably closer to a standard linear dose-response relationship,)

by VLM 10y ago

matt4077 10y ago

I tried to find some data on that, but it appears that there is no data available showing definite health hazards of these compounds. Getting such data can be difficult. Animal models can often be wrong: the toxicity may be specific to humans, or the damage may require exposure over time frames than the animals' life span, or it only manifests under rare circumstances (i. e. interactions with drugs). The best data you can get may be from people who were exposed to the compounds unusually high degrees, usually because they worked with them. But that group of people may be too small, or not diverse enough (we've long avoided exposing pregnant women to industrial chemicals), or the nature of their work exposed them to different chemicals muddling any results. You say "Its irresponsible to make policy decisions without knowing the actual risk level", but I'd say that you can't not make a decision: taking the view that a chemical is safe until proven otherwise is as much a decision as the opposite. The EU has started to assume new compounds to be dangerous until proven otherwise – I believe the US may still be doing the opposite. Ethanol (i. e. alcohol) is also a particularly bad unit of measurement, considering its effects on human health are not just somewhat disputed, but apparently highly unusual. There is quite a lot of evidence for beneficial effects of alcohol, possibly even at rather high dosages (although the effects on cancer, which you mention specifically, are probably closer to a standard linear dose-response relationship,)