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As I have understood it the AGPL forces you to have any code that uses the software to be open sourced. Even though the drivers are of a different license it do

by jontro 10y ago

As I have understood it the AGPL forces you to have any code that uses the software to be open sourced. Even though the drivers are of a different license it doesn't matter right?

detaro 10y ago
AFAIK: No, the "infection" rules are like those of GPL (modifications of the code, or code that links to it), the difference is in with whom you have to share the source code. With the GPL, you only have to share it with those that you give a copy of the software -> if you run it on your servers only, you don't have to give out any source. The Affero GPL modifies this to cover this exact scenario: everyone using the software directly or over a network connection now has a right to the source code. The license does not "jump" over the network connection to the code of applications connecting to it. See also https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#AGPL https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#AGPL
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  The problem, and a reason why AGPL almost has to be considered toxic to date, is that we don't know whether or not the "infection" rules "jump" over the network connection. A big reason for this is that the AGPL hasn't yet been tested in a court of law. As a developer you don't want to have to explain to a jury of "peers" than may be less than technical how or why your software should not be "infected". There are so many gray areas. Does a SPA JS application communicating with a REST API of an AGPL application count as "linked"? We don't know. To a jury that sure might look like the same application. Say that it does, does something then like a AWS Lambda "serverless" pipeline that utilizes that same REST API count as linked? We don't know. Maybe, maybe that counts as "mere aggregation" and at this point for the GPL there's a sort of well understood DMZ around that weasel term, because there have been enough "mere aggregation" situations over a couple decades, some of which were even litigated in a court of law, to sort of set up some fences of what that possibly means. For the AGPL no such DMZ has been established, at least not in a well-understood, applicable to every use of the license, manner. The way the AGPL is directly written, in order to be as infectious as possible, as an intentional goal of its writing, we as a developer community have absolutely no idea how far the infection rabbit hole goes. The concern that the AGPL is toxic is as much the fear that we can't explain that infection rabbit hole to a jury in a court of law. We mostly know this because as developers a lot of us have already had a very hard time even explaining this rabbit hole to software company lawyers that may even be technically versed on both sides of the fence.

by jontro 10y ago

As I have understood it the AGPL forces you to have any code that uses the software to be open sourced. Even though the drivers are of a different license it doesn't matter right?

detaro 10y ago

AFAIK: No, the "infection" rules are like those of GPL (modifications of the code, or code that links to it), the difference is in with whom you have to share the source code. With the GPL, you only have to share it with those that you give a copy of the software -> if you run it on your servers only, you don't have to give out any source. The Affero GPL modifies this to cover this exact scenario: everyone using the software directly or over a network connection now has a right to the source code. The license does not "jump" over the network connection to the code of applications connecting to it. See also https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#AGPL https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#AGPL

WorldMaker 10y ago
The problem, and a reason why AGPL almost has to be considered toxic to date, is that we don't know whether or not the "infection" rules "jump" over the network connection. A big reason for this is that the AGPL hasn't yet been tested in a court of law. As a developer you don't want to have to explain to a jury of "peers" than may be less than technical how or why your software should not be "infected". There are so many gray areas. Does a SPA JS application communicating with a REST API of an AGPL application count as "linked"? We don't know. To a jury that sure might look like the same application. Say that it does, does something then like a AWS Lambda "serverless" pipeline that utilizes that same REST API count as linked? We don't know. Maybe, maybe that counts as "mere aggregation" and at this point for the GPL there's a sort of well understood DMZ around that weasel term, because there have been enough "mere aggregation" situations over a couple decades, some of which were even litigated in a court of law, to sort of set up some fences of what that possibly means. For the AGPL no such DMZ has been established, at least not in a well-understood, applicable to every use of the license, manner. The way the AGPL is directly written, in order to be as infectious as possible, as an intentional goal of its writing, we as a developer community have absolutely no idea how far the infection rabbit hole goes. The concern that the AGPL is toxic is as much the fear that we can't explain that infection rabbit hole to a jury in a court of law. We mostly know this because as developers a lot of us have already had a very hard time even explaining this rabbit hole to software company lawyers that may even be technically versed on both sides of the fence.