4 ms·

I'm not expecting there to be a huge difference, but it looks silly to include non-standard features for both React and Vue. As for performance, do you have a

I'm not expecting there to be a huge difference, but it looks silly to include non-standard features for both React and Vue. As for performance, do you have a setup that we could see that shows how those are generated? Just genuinely curious.

lhorie 10y ago
Well, maybe we just disagree on this point, but I think it makes more sense to compare apples to apples. To frame in a different way, given that Mithril isn't solely a view library, would you say it makes more sense to compare against a typical Backbone setup including dependencies like jQuery, or just compare against Marionette alone? The performance numbers are explained in more detailed in the frameworks comparison page (they're dbmonster average render times). There are links to each implementation (they are all naive, using production-mode versions).
- baconomatic 10y ago
  Perhaps we do disagree, that's okay! I think a fair comparison would be Mithril vs Backbone, but not necessarily with using jQuery as you could use Zepto. I think it's really tough to do comparisons well and what it really comes down to, in my opinion, is how useful the library more so than the size and performance (within reason). Also, my mistake on missing the links to the implementations in the comparison. Perhaps there needs to be a bit more contrast between the copy and the links? Anyways, I've used Mithril and I think it's great, just wanted to make sure that the comparisons were fair.
dwaltrip 10y ago
Is redux considered "standard" in react land? I thought a lot of projects don't make use of it.
- baconomatic 10y ago
  I'd say it's a standard when you are getting into bigger applications, but the Redux docs do say that you might need it: http://redux.js.org/ http://redux.js.org/ So, I wouldn't consider it a standard for doing performance/size comparisons.
- jbucaran 10y ago
  Redux is an opinionated implementation of the SAM pattern for React. The same pattern can be seen in the Elm Architecture. • http://sam.js.org http://sam.js.org Now, I don't know how old this pattern is, or whether it was already commonplace 15 years ago. I was introduced to these ideas first through Redux, then learned Elm, the found SAM.
  - drecdroid 10y ago
    It is not, almost everything can follow SAM patern, but Redux, as is used by everyone, doesn't follow the pattern.
    - jdubray 10y ago
      that is correct
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jdubray 10y ago
    I am the author of the SAM pattern. It is based on the semantics of the work of Dr. Leslie Lamport who got a Turing award for it (TLA+ - Temporal Logic of Actions). TLA+ was popularized by Amazon as a tool to help fix complex defects in AWS. SAM fixes three approximations that we have been using in Software Engineering for Decades: - actions can manipulate application state - assignments are equivalent to mutation - there is no need to define precisely what is a programming step (for instance when you write a = b + c, is that a step or is it 3 steps: read b,c, compute b+c, mutate the value of a) To a certain degree, Redux and Elm are trying to address these three approximations as well, but they do it from a FP point of view, not from a TLA+ point of view. Their definition of action aligns with the one of event and their approach to mutation is immutability. The main difference between SAM and Redux/Elm is the way side-effects are treated. SAM embraces side-effects (in particular asynch calls) while Redux/Elm don't know how to deal with them. Redux for instance breaks its principle #1 (single state tree) by introducing Sagas. SAM is a factoring of your code that fits in one line of code: V = State(Model.present(Action(event))).then(nextAction) No need for a nebula of libraries or inventing a whole new language.

lhorie 10y ago

Well, maybe we just disagree on this point, but I think it makes more sense to compare apples to apples. To frame in a different way, given that Mithril isn't solely a view library, would you say it makes more sense to compare against a typical Backbone setup including dependencies like jQuery, or just compare against Marionette alone? The performance numbers are explained in more detailed in the frameworks comparison page (they're dbmonster average render times). There are links to each implementation (they are all naive, using production-mode versions).

baconomatic 10y ago
Perhaps we do disagree, that's okay! I think a fair comparison would be Mithril vs Backbone, but not necessarily with using jQuery as you could use Zepto. I think it's really tough to do comparisons well and what it really comes down to, in my opinion, is how useful the library more so than the size and performance (within reason). Also, my mistake on missing the links to the implementations in the comparison. Perhaps there needs to be a bit more contrast between the copy and the links? Anyways, I've used Mithril and I think it's great, just wanted to make sure that the comparisons were fair.

dwaltrip 10y ago

Is redux considered "standard" in react land? I thought a lot of projects don't make use of it.

baconomatic 10y ago
I'd say it's a standard when you are getting into bigger applications, but the Redux docs do say that you might need it: http://redux.js.org/ http://redux.js.org/ So, I wouldn't consider it a standard for doing performance/size comparisons.
jbucaran 10y ago
Redux is an opinionated implementation of the SAM pattern for React. The same pattern can be seen in the Elm Architecture. • http://sam.js.org http://sam.js.org Now, I don't know how old this pattern is, or whether it was already commonplace 15 years ago. I was introduced to these ideas first through Redux, then learned Elm, the found SAM.
- drecdroid 10y ago
  It is not, almost everything can follow SAM patern, but Redux, as is used by everyone, doesn't follow the pattern.
  - jdubray 10y ago
    that is correct
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jdubray 10y ago
  I am the author of the SAM pattern. It is based on the semantics of the work of Dr. Leslie Lamport who got a Turing award for it (TLA+ - Temporal Logic of Actions). TLA+ was popularized by Amazon as a tool to help fix complex defects in AWS. SAM fixes three approximations that we have been using in Software Engineering for Decades: - actions can manipulate application state - assignments are equivalent to mutation - there is no need to define precisely what is a programming step (for instance when you write a = b + c, is that a step or is it 3 steps: read b,c, compute b+c, mutate the value of a) To a certain degree, Redux and Elm are trying to address these three approximations as well, but they do it from a FP point of view, not from a TLA+ point of view. Their definition of action aligns with the one of event and their approach to mutation is immutability. The main difference between SAM and Redux/Elm is the way side-effects are treated. SAM embraces side-effects (in particular asynch calls) while Redux/Elm don't know how to deal with them. Redux for instance breaks its principle #1 (single state tree) by introducing Sagas. SAM is a factoring of your code that fits in one line of code: V = State(Model.present(Action(event))).then(nextAction) No need for a nebula of libraries or inventing a whole new language.