4 ms·

I'm amazed by the cognitive dissonance necessary to equate people who are legal permanent residents of the United States with militants who are the targets of m

I'm amazed by the cognitive dissonance necessary to equate people who are legal permanent residents of the United States with militants who are the targets of military action in ISIS-controlled territory. I also think it's hilarious that the right is now all of a sudden pretending to give a shit about all the "bombing and killing the US has been doing" when they clearly supported the invasion of Iraq and all the military actions in the Middle East undertaken by Bush that have lead us to where we are today.

imron 10y ago
Firstly, I'm not on the right. I used to consider myself on the left, but given the Left's recent behaviour I no longer feel I belong there either. I'm also not from the US. I am however of Muslim heritage. My parents are Muslim (though not the middle-eastern variety) but they encouraged me and my siblings to make our own choice regarding religion (not all Islam is as strict on this as is made out). I chose not to follow a religion, though from a cultural perspective there are aspects that are still a part of who I am. With that out of the way, I will say that it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to believe that the US is only bombing militants [0]. I mean sure bombing that hospital was an accident, and it doesn't happen all that often and the US would never bomb innocent civilians right? After all the official count of civilian casualties due to bombing is very low, right? Of course it is, because thanks to the previous administration, all military aged men killed by drones are automatically assumed to be military combatants regardless of whether they were or not [1]. And so with stroke of a pen, innocent civilian casualties caused by drone strikes are reduced to single digits. And last year the US dropped an average of 3 bombs an hour on mostly Muslim countries [2], including 5 that are on the current visa ban list, but where was the concern for the citizens of these countries then? The above two items are a far worse affront than the temporary visa ban Trump has instituted, but where was the outrage? the protests? the monthly donations worth thousands of dollars to the ACLU? the tears from senators? the acceptance speeches of celebrities calling out the president? That a visa ban can cause more outrage than either of the above two items makes me angry, and frankly, strikes me as little more than political opportunism and/or people being easily manipulated by political opportunists, rather than genuine concern for the well-being of Muslims. End the Muslim visa ban! I hear. Personally I'd rather end all the bombing of Muslim countries that led to this mess in the first place. I might not like Trump and I might not like this visa ban, but at least one of Trump's campaign messages was to get the US out of foreign wars and to stop with its policy of foreign regime change. The last 10 days have shown that Trump is intent on following through with his campaign promises and if he can fulfill that one, then a temporary visa ban, although inconvenient to many, is an acceptable cost. -- 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bombing-hospital-doctors-without-borders-kunduz.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bo... 1: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-ob... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...
- nodamage 10y ago
  If you're not on the right it must be an enormous coincidence that you're repeating the same conservative talking point being posted all over HN and the internet. No one believes the US is only bombing militants, but obviously they are not intentionally targeting civilians either. The bombing of the hospital was clearly a huge, unfortunate mistake, but somehow has been twisted by those with an agenda into "Obama has a policy of bombing hospitals", which is absurd. For the record I was opposed to Bush's original invasion of Iraq and subsequent military actions in the Middle East, along with Obama's (and now Trump's) continuation of said military actions (including the aforementioned use of drone strikes), and I fully agree that America should get the hell out of the Middle East because we're clearly doing more harm than good in the region. That being said, Trump's blanket ban targeted normal, lawful permanent residents living in the United States, and as implemented left them stranded and unable to return home to their families if they happened to be outside of the country on Friday, for no reason other than what passport they happen to hold, so I think it's entirely understandable why people are so strongly opposed to it.
  - imron 10y ago
    > If you're not on the right it must be an enormous coincidence that you're repeating the same conservative talking point being posted all over HN and the internet Enormous coincidence it is then. Or perhaps your assumption that it's only conservatives/people on the right making those points is in error?
    - nodamage 10y ago
      Well, so far I've only seen conservatives attempt to make the massively flawed argument: "well Obama has already been bombing these countries, so who cares about a few visas?" as if they were referring to the same groups of people.

imron 10y ago

Firstly, I'm not on the right. I used to consider myself on the left, but given the Left's recent behaviour I no longer feel I belong there either. I'm also not from the US. I am however of Muslim heritage. My parents are Muslim (though not the middle-eastern variety) but they encouraged me and my siblings to make our own choice regarding religion (not all Islam is as strict on this as is made out). I chose not to follow a religion, though from a cultural perspective there are aspects that are still a part of who I am. With that out of the way, I will say that it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to believe that the US is only bombing militants [0]. I mean sure bombing that hospital was an accident, and it doesn't happen all that often and the US would never bomb innocent civilians right? After all the official count of civilian casualties due to bombing is very low, right? Of course it is, because thanks to the previous administration, all military aged men killed by drones are automatically assumed to be military combatants regardless of whether they were or not [1]. And so with stroke of a pen, innocent civilian casualties caused by drone strikes are reduced to single digits. And last year the US dropped an average of 3 bombs an hour on mostly Muslim countries [2], including 5 that are on the current visa ban list, but where was the concern for the citizens of these countries then? The above two items are a far worse affront than the temporary visa ban Trump has instituted, but where was the outrage? the protests? the monthly donations worth thousands of dollars to the ACLU? the tears from senators? the acceptance speeches of celebrities calling out the president? That a visa ban can cause more outrage than either of the above two items makes me angry, and frankly, strikes me as little more than political opportunism and/or people being easily manipulated by political opportunists, rather than genuine concern for the well-being of Muslims. End the Muslim visa ban! I hear. Personally I'd rather end all the bombing of Muslim countries that led to this mess in the first place. I might not like Trump and I might not like this visa ban, but at least one of Trump's campaign messages was to get the US out of foreign wars and to stop with its policy of foreign regime change. The last 10 days have shown that Trump is intent on following through with his campaign promises and if he can fulfill that one, then a temporary visa ban, although inconvenient to many, is an acceptable cost. -- 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bombing-hospital-doctors-without-borders-kunduz.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bo... 1: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-ob... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...

nodamage 10y ago
If you're not on the right it must be an enormous coincidence that you're repeating the same conservative talking point being posted all over HN and the internet. No one believes the US is only bombing militants, but obviously they are not intentionally targeting civilians either. The bombing of the hospital was clearly a huge, unfortunate mistake, but somehow has been twisted by those with an agenda into "Obama has a policy of bombing hospitals", which is absurd. For the record I was opposed to Bush's original invasion of Iraq and subsequent military actions in the Middle East, along with Obama's (and now Trump's) continuation of said military actions (including the aforementioned use of drone strikes), and I fully agree that America should get the hell out of the Middle East because we're clearly doing more harm than good in the region. That being said, Trump's blanket ban targeted normal, lawful permanent residents living in the United States, and as implemented left them stranded and unable to return home to their families if they happened to be outside of the country on Friday, for no reason other than what passport they happen to hold, so I think it's entirely understandable why people are so strongly opposed to it.
- imron 10y ago
  > If you're not on the right it must be an enormous coincidence that you're repeating the same conservative talking point being posted all over HN and the internet Enormous coincidence it is then. Or perhaps your assumption that it's only conservatives/people on the right making those points is in error?
  - nodamage 10y ago
    Well, so far I've only seen conservatives attempt to make the massively flawed argument: "well Obama has already been bombing these countries, so who cares about a few visas?" as if they were referring to the same groups of people.