7 ms·

How to prevent systemd installation on Ubuntu 14.04 and other Debian-based distros

22 points by mnmlsm 10y ago

subway 10y ago
Or just install systemd-shim and call it a day.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Does that satisfy a package-defined dependency on systemd? If not, it won't solve anything here.
  - irl_ 10y ago
    If the dependency can be satisfied by systemd-shim, the package will depend on "systemd | systemd-shim". This means that if you have neither installed, systemd would be installed. If you have systemd-shim installed then it's fine with that. There are packages that really do depend on systemd, and so they would not have their dependencies satisfied. If you really hate systemd that much that you want to put in effort to keep it out, I would seriously suggest putting in some contributions to alternative init systems and patches for software that requires systemd to have fallbacks to work on those init systems. If you're desperately trying to keep systemd out of your system then maybe you shouldn't upgrade your system (think LTS releases) until you've figured out how your applications work with systemd. systemd is not going away, posts like this are OK for those who have been hit with surprises, but anyone that thinks this ignoring systemd is a viable long term fix is delusional.
    - daveguy 10y ago
      > anyone that thinks this ignoring systemd is a viable long term fix is delusional. As is anyone who doesn't acknowledge there are always alternatives in the open source world.
      - vetinari 10y ago
        > As is anyone who doesn't acknowledge there are always alternatives in the open source world. That's why the GP wrote this: > I would seriously suggest putting in some contributions to alternative init systems and patches for software that requires systemd to have fallbacks to work on those init systems. The problems that systemd solves and others don't, won't get resolved by closing eyes and hoping for the best. They can get solved by writing code for those alternate init systems. As an example, is ConsoleKit working already, after all the years of neglect and ignorance of pleads of the desktop environment guys? (Of course not).
throw2016 10y ago
This is a losing battle. May as well cut your losses and use a distro that doesn't use Systemd. There is now a predictable pattern of Systemd devs and supporters trying to persuade developers to get more and more functionality to depend on Systemd. It started with Gnome, logind, udev, consolekit and recent attempts to get apps to depend on Systemds dns server show it is a ongoing process. In the end its critical for end users to develop funding models for open source. Without this, accountability will continue to shift away from users to corporates like Redhat and their interests. And users will be forced to accept whatever is thrown their way or move away.
- PopsiclePete 10y ago
  To me, the article wasn't in the vein of "how-to-never-run-systemd-ever-and-be-a-linux-hermit", it was more of a "hey, it's here to stay, but it will break your stuff, so here's a temporary way to prevent it from installing on your 4-year-old-distro".
yuhong 10y ago
I have a hard time finding a hire date for Poettering at Red Hat BTW. It looks like Jeff Johnson (rpm) was hired at Red Hat in 1998.
jaimex2 10y ago
Don't fight it, just let it happen.

22 points by mnmlsm 10y ago

subway 10y ago

Or just install systemd-shim and call it a day.

throwanem 10y ago
Does that satisfy a package-defined dependency on systemd? If not, it won't solve anything here.
- irl_ 10y ago
  If the dependency can be satisfied by systemd-shim, the package will depend on "systemd | systemd-shim". This means that if you have neither installed, systemd would be installed. If you have systemd-shim installed then it's fine with that. There are packages that really do depend on systemd, and so they would not have their dependencies satisfied. If you really hate systemd that much that you want to put in effort to keep it out, I would seriously suggest putting in some contributions to alternative init systems and patches for software that requires systemd to have fallbacks to work on those init systems. If you're desperately trying to keep systemd out of your system then maybe you shouldn't upgrade your system (think LTS releases) until you've figured out how your applications work with systemd. systemd is not going away, posts like this are OK for those who have been hit with surprises, but anyone that thinks this ignoring systemd is a viable long term fix is delusional.
  - daveguy 10y ago
    > anyone that thinks this ignoring systemd is a viable long term fix is delusional. As is anyone who doesn't acknowledge there are always alternatives in the open source world.
    - vetinari 10y ago
      > As is anyone who doesn't acknowledge there are always alternatives in the open source world. That's why the GP wrote this: > I would seriously suggest putting in some contributions to alternative init systems and patches for software that requires systemd to have fallbacks to work on those init systems. The problems that systemd solves and others don't, won't get resolved by closing eyes and hoping for the best. They can get solved by writing code for those alternate init systems. As an example, is ConsoleKit working already, after all the years of neglect and ignorance of pleads of the desktop environment guys? (Of course not).

throw2016 10y ago

This is a losing battle. May as well cut your losses and use a distro that doesn't use Systemd. There is now a predictable pattern of Systemd devs and supporters trying to persuade developers to get more and more functionality to depend on Systemd. It started with Gnome, logind, udev, consolekit and recent attempts to get apps to depend on Systemds dns server show it is a ongoing process. In the end its critical for end users to develop funding models for open source. Without this, accountability will continue to shift away from users to corporates like Redhat and their interests. And users will be forced to accept whatever is thrown their way or move away.

PopsiclePete 10y ago
To me, the article wasn't in the vein of "how-to-never-run-systemd-ever-and-be-a-linux-hermit", it was more of a "hey, it's here to stay, but it will break your stuff, so here's a temporary way to prevent it from installing on your 4-year-old-distro".

yuhong 10y ago

I have a hard time finding a hire date for Poettering at Red Hat BTW. It looks like Jeff Johnson (rpm) was hired at Red Hat in 1998.

jaimex2 10y ago

Don't fight it, just let it happen.