6 ms·

This reads like a conspiracy theory I'd find on Info Wars. I really dislike the term trump derangement syndrome, but every day its becoming a better descriptor.

by MollyR 10y ago

This reads like a conspiracy theory I'd find on Info Wars. I really dislike the term trump derangement syndrome, but every day its becoming a better descriptor. We need to be better than this. Trump's very election is a coup against the establishment, and so was Bernie Sanders impressive campaign in the primary. Trump's win, and Bernie's Rise make it clear, that Americans are done with business as usual politics. We all need to be dealing with this new reality instead of running to conspiracy theories.

kmos17 10y ago
I agree, the whole process and reversal of the order for green card holders reads a lot more like the result of a disorganized administration that is rushing in, with a very small team acting like a bunch of teenagers who just got a hold of the ferrari's keys. It most likely will get a lot worse, so conspiracy theories run the risk of crying wolf too often for nothing when the real danger is barreling down the road.
hockeybias 10y ago
Agreed.
tptacek 10y ago
These are false equivalences. Alex Jones at InfoWars believes that Clinton and Obama are literally agents of satan, of literal supernatural evil. He's so over-the-top that his videos have become meme fodder. Obama joked about them on the stump (Jones claims that Obama left an odor of sulfur because of his demonic affiliations), and everyone in the audience knew what he meant. Meanwhile, we're just a few days into this administration and it has already enacted a Muslim ban (complete with an escape hatch for Christians from Muslim countries) that operates in open defiance of federal courts --- Trump has precipitated a Constitutional crisis in how the US Marshal Service, which serves the courts but formally reports to the Executive Branch, will carry out its orders. A convenient way to dismiss an argument is to attempt to tie it clownish morons like Alex Jones. But to accomplish that, you'll have to support your argument with evidence. What supernatural powers does this post suggest compel Trump to violate the federal courts?
- MollyR 10y ago
  Its absolutely not a false equivalence. Infowars publishes tons of fear mongering articles with various shades of legitimacy, just like this article. EDIT: It's how they got so influential, they mix a lot of half truths and speculation into their articles. A muslim ban that doesn't ban saudi arabia, india,pakistan indonesia,and somalia doesn't seem much of a muslim ban. I'm going to quote elon musk here "Reading the source material is better than reading other people's opinions about the source material" on the muslim ban. Its pretty clear the media is acting as an opposition party to Trump rather then objective researchers. I highly suggest you read the actual executive orders, before you start fear mongering, because that doesn't actually help anybody.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Source material is important. It's also important to look at what people have said around the creation of that source material. Giuliani, in an interview on Fox News, yesterday: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t... "I’ll tell you the whole history of it: When he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said on Fox News. "He called me up, he said, ‘Put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally.’" I find it very difficult to dismiss out of hand that it isn't intended as a Muslim ban in spirit when Giuliani explicitly says that this exactly what he was asked to do. The submitted post also includes two articles which include a lot of additional source material.
    - MollyR 10y ago
      In the article, it says explicitly. """ "The areas of the world that create danger for us, which is a factual basis, not a religious basis. Perfectly legal, perfectly sensible." Giuliani reiterated that the ban is "not based on religion." """ A muslim ban not based in religion sounds nonsensical to me. As for the conspiracy theory medium article, its easy to do in a world of big data. It's called cherry picking, and its exactly what Info Wars does to create their fear mongering articles. Vague speculation and half truths on the main premises of the paper, and then even the conclusions. Here's an example from the medium article: "The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime" This is clear hysteria. Here's what Trump actually said on black communities while campaigning, "We're going to rebuild our inner cities because our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape they've ever been in before. Ever, ever, ever." And so far President Trump as been doing pretty closely what he said.
nostrademons 10y ago
I knew Yonatan at Google - he was one of the key Search people when I started there - and I would consider him an eminently reasonable person. He is not at all prone to knee-jerk responses without having good cause. While I agree that a lot of the media headlines (in particular, calling it a blanket Muslim ban) have been hyperbolic, the facts of the case should provide plenty of concern on their own. You have an executive order that has prevented legal permanent residents of the U.S. from returning home to their families, specifically applied to them over the advice of DHS lawyers by un-elected members of the Presiden's NRC, and police forces that have refused to honor a court order from the judicial branch of the government. You don't need to draw any grand conspiracy theories to be concerned about this.

by MollyR 10y ago

kmos17 10y ago

I agree, the whole process and reversal of the order for green card holders reads a lot more like the result of a disorganized administration that is rushing in, with a very small team acting like a bunch of teenagers who just got a hold of the ferrari's keys. It most likely will get a lot worse, so conspiracy theories run the risk of crying wolf too often for nothing when the real danger is barreling down the road.

hockeybias 10y ago

Agreed.

tptacek 10y ago

These are false equivalences. Alex Jones at InfoWars believes that Clinton and Obama are literally agents of satan, of literal supernatural evil. He's so over-the-top that his videos have become meme fodder. Obama joked about them on the stump (Jones claims that Obama left an odor of sulfur because of his demonic affiliations), and everyone in the audience knew what he meant. Meanwhile, we're just a few days into this administration and it has already enacted a Muslim ban (complete with an escape hatch for Christians from Muslim countries) that operates in open defiance of federal courts --- Trump has precipitated a Constitutional crisis in how the US Marshal Service, which serves the courts but formally reports to the Executive Branch, will carry out its orders. A convenient way to dismiss an argument is to attempt to tie it clownish morons like Alex Jones. But to accomplish that, you'll have to support your argument with evidence. What supernatural powers does this post suggest compel Trump to violate the federal courts?

MollyR 10y ago
Its absolutely not a false equivalence. Infowars publishes tons of fear mongering articles with various shades of legitimacy, just like this article. EDIT: It's how they got so influential, they mix a lot of half truths and speculation into their articles. A muslim ban that doesn't ban saudi arabia, india,pakistan indonesia,and somalia doesn't seem much of a muslim ban. I'm going to quote elon musk here "Reading the source material is better than reading other people's opinions about the source material" on the muslim ban. Its pretty clear the media is acting as an opposition party to Trump rather then objective researchers. I highly suggest you read the actual executive orders, before you start fear mongering, because that doesn't actually help anybody.
- grzm 10y ago
  Source material is important. It's also important to look at what people have said around the creation of that source material. Giuliani, in an interview on Fox News, yesterday: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t... "I’ll tell you the whole history of it: When he first announced it, he said ‘Muslim ban,'" Giuliani said on Fox News. "He called me up, he said, ‘Put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally.’" I find it very difficult to dismiss out of hand that it isn't intended as a Muslim ban in spirit when Giuliani explicitly says that this exactly what he was asked to do. The submitted post also includes two articles which include a lot of additional source material.
  - MollyR 10y ago
    In the article, it says explicitly. """ "The areas of the world that create danger for us, which is a factual basis, not a religious basis. Perfectly legal, perfectly sensible." Giuliani reiterated that the ban is "not based on religion." """ A muslim ban not based in religion sounds nonsensical to me. As for the conspiracy theory medium article, its easy to do in a world of big data. It's called cherry picking, and its exactly what Info Wars does to create their fear mongering articles. Vague speculation and half truths on the main premises of the paper, and then even the conclusions. Here's an example from the medium article: "The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime" This is clear hysteria. Here's what Trump actually said on black communities while campaigning, "We're going to rebuild our inner cities because our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape they've ever been in before. Ever, ever, ever." And so far President Trump as been doing pretty closely what he said.

nostrademons 10y ago

I knew Yonatan at Google - he was one of the key Search people when I started there - and I would consider him an eminently reasonable person. He is not at all prone to knee-jerk responses without having good cause. While I agree that a lot of the media headlines (in particular, calling it a blanket Muslim ban) have been hyperbolic, the facts of the case should provide plenty of concern on their own. You have an executive order that has prevented legal permanent residents of the U.S. from returning home to their families, specifically applied to them over the advice of DHS lawyers by un-elected members of the Presiden's NRC, and police forces that have refused to honor a court order from the judicial branch of the government. You don't need to draw any grand conspiracy theories to be concerned about this.