24 ms·

Just because you've lived in the US for all your life doesn't mean much when talking about something specific scient went through. Note also, his comment addre

by mildbow 10y ago

Just because you've lived in the US for all your life doesn't mean much when talking about something specific scient went through. Note also, his comment addressed issues he perceived and solutions that would directly affect change in a positive way for you! Let me spell it out for you: if H1-B wasn't as restrictive, then companies couldn't abuse them for lower salaries, making Americans (in your view) more competitive. Anyway, why should American employment come first? How have you contributed to the country more than a random foreigner, by default? If anything, it benefits a country to have immigrants (who it hasn't invested in) come and provide expertise for free! That free expertise is what H1-B was/is for. From this, it also follows that it benefits a country to make use of a highly qualified spouse of an immigrant.

davidf18 10y ago
> "Anyway, why should American employment come first?" Because we are American citizens. Ask about any American and they will agree as will our President, that immigrants should not be displacing Americans from jobs. This is true of about any country and I and most agree with this that citizens come first for employment. If there are no citizens to fill the role anywhere in the country, then by all means hire a immigrant. Many firms could hire more competent workers by locating office where the competent workers live. For example, Google has a huge office building in NYC and hires many New Yorkers. Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Apple do not have such a large presence in NYC for engineering as Google and that is part of the problem those firms may have in terms of hiring competent people. > "So it follows that it benefits a country to make use of a highly qualified spouse of an immigrant." Your wife would be taking the job of an American. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is a good thing. Maybe your wife can get a job in the country you are from instead of displacing American jobs.
- anthonybsd 10y ago
  >For example, Google has a huge office building in NYC and hires many New Yorkers. You sound more and more like a closet xenophobe. I have multiple friends that work in that office. Majority of techies there are foreign born, although only a small percentage of them are on H1Bs.
  - davidf18 10y ago
    > "Majority of techies there are foreign born" Do you work in human relations at Google? Otherwise how would you know this. It hires many, many engineers. The issue is the abuse of the H1-B Visa system to hire employees at lower wage rates than Americans. I have absolutely no problem with an H1-B Visa issued for its original intent which is in the case that there is no American to fill the job. Usually, there are Americans to fill the job, but the firm frequently doesn't want to offer the wages necessary to employ them.
- mildbow 10y ago
  Don't assume whether my wife is an immigrant or not. Or, that her job is fungible enough to be so easily displaced. Anyway, my point was that the US as a whole benefits from immigrants. So, from a economic standpoint your comment doesn't make sense. I understand that Americans coming first in Americah is what you believe in. That doesn't make it right. It's something you can fight for/vote for[0]/we can talk about. But you can't just beg the question when asked why you think so. [0] It's not something I have or will ever vote for. Because I believe in a meritocracy and pursuit of happiness open to all.
  - davidf18 10y ago
    > "Don't assume whether my wife is an immigrant or not." From the context you supplied earlier, it seems she is not allowed to work here, therefore, not a US citizen. > "Anyway, my point was that the US as a whole benefits from immigrants." I don't disagree. My problem is not with immigrants. My ancestors were immigrants. But they did not displace American jobs or depress wage rates through an H1-B Visa type program that was abused. They became American citizens. > "I understand that Americans coming first in Americah is what you believe in. That doesn't make it right." It is not only what I believe, but more importantly what about every American believes. What is wrong is that immigrants are taking jobs from Americans or depressing wage rates. There is no question that that is wrong. Perhaps immigrants should get jobs in their own countries. "ComputerWorld reports that following an announcement by Disney in October 2014 that the company would be using an offshore outsourcing firm for future hiring, tensions between workers and Disney became strained. The company began hiring South Asian workers at a rapid pace, and some current Disney workers were forced to begin training their H-1B visa worker replacements. In January of 2015 nearly 250 Disney IT workers were laid off, leading 30 of those former Disney employees to file a lawsuit in the US District Court of Orlando." http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/14/disney-it-workers-file-lawsuit-claiming-company-replaced-them-with-h-1b-visa-workers/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/14/disney-it-workers-f...
    - mildbow 10y ago
      You probably thought I was the parent. Anyway, since it seems to be a sticking point with you, my wife and I are Americans, but I don't believe that Americans, by default, should get a job over immigrants[0]. So it's not everybody :) As I mentioned in a previous comment, I believe in a meritocracy and the pursuit of happiness for all. And, all doesn't mean just people who lucked out by being born in America. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. [0] if the first word that jumped into your head was some variation of "[race] traitor", then I suggest you consider your subconscious biases in this debate.
ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
All immigration serves to drive overall wages down.
- mildbow 10y ago
  No basic income serves to drive overall wages down.
  - ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
    I agree with that, but not sure how it refutes the point I was making.
- davidf18 10y ago
  But most immigrants from Mexico do not drive down IT workers wages. But abuse and increase of H1-B Visas does down IT worker wages.
  - ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
    You can argue it does indirectly. If blue collar job wages are driven very low, more people will choose STEM careers, which will also serve to drive IT job wages down.
  - sameAsYou 10y ago
    so, as long as it is not in IT industry, it is okay to drive the wages down ?
    - davidf18 10y ago
      I was simply replying in the context of the article which is regarding abuse of H1-B visas and a fix. Actually it applies to the larger category of all of STEM, not only IT. I don't think it is right to drive anyone's wages down through immigration whether working class or STEM.

by mildbow 10y ago

davidf18 10y ago

> "Anyway, why should American employment come first?" Because we are American citizens. Ask about any American and they will agree as will our President, that immigrants should not be displacing Americans from jobs. This is true of about any country and I and most agree with this that citizens come first for employment. If there are no citizens to fill the role anywhere in the country, then by all means hire a immigrant. Many firms could hire more competent workers by locating office where the competent workers live. For example, Google has a huge office building in NYC and hires many New Yorkers. Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Apple do not have such a large presence in NYC for engineering as Google and that is part of the problem those firms may have in terms of hiring competent people. > "So it follows that it benefits a country to make use of a highly qualified spouse of an immigrant." Your wife would be taking the job of an American. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is a good thing. Maybe your wife can get a job in the country you are from instead of displacing American jobs.

anthonybsd 10y ago
>For example, Google has a huge office building in NYC and hires many New Yorkers. You sound more and more like a closet xenophobe. I have multiple friends that work in that office. Majority of techies there are foreign born, although only a small percentage of them are on H1Bs.
- davidf18 10y ago
  > "Majority of techies there are foreign born" Do you work in human relations at Google? Otherwise how would you know this. It hires many, many engineers. The issue is the abuse of the H1-B Visa system to hire employees at lower wage rates than Americans. I have absolutely no problem with an H1-B Visa issued for its original intent which is in the case that there is no American to fill the job. Usually, there are Americans to fill the job, but the firm frequently doesn't want to offer the wages necessary to employ them.
mildbow 10y ago
Don't assume whether my wife is an immigrant or not. Or, that her job is fungible enough to be so easily displaced. Anyway, my point was that the US as a whole benefits from immigrants. So, from a economic standpoint your comment doesn't make sense. I understand that Americans coming first in Americah is what you believe in. That doesn't make it right. It's something you can fight for/vote for[0]/we can talk about. But you can't just beg the question when asked why you think so. [0] It's not something I have or will ever vote for. Because I believe in a meritocracy and pursuit of happiness open to all.
- davidf18 10y ago
  > "Don't assume whether my wife is an immigrant or not." From the context you supplied earlier, it seems she is not allowed to work here, therefore, not a US citizen. > "Anyway, my point was that the US as a whole benefits from immigrants." I don't disagree. My problem is not with immigrants. My ancestors were immigrants. But they did not displace American jobs or depress wage rates through an H1-B Visa type program that was abused. They became American citizens. > "I understand that Americans coming first in Americah is what you believe in. That doesn't make it right." It is not only what I believe, but more importantly what about every American believes. What is wrong is that immigrants are taking jobs from Americans or depressing wage rates. There is no question that that is wrong. Perhaps immigrants should get jobs in their own countries. "ComputerWorld reports that following an announcement by Disney in October 2014 that the company would be using an offshore outsourcing firm for future hiring, tensions between workers and Disney became strained. The company began hiring South Asian workers at a rapid pace, and some current Disney workers were forced to begin training their H-1B visa worker replacements. In January of 2015 nearly 250 Disney IT workers were laid off, leading 30 of those former Disney employees to file a lawsuit in the US District Court of Orlando." http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/14/disney-it-workers-file-lawsuit-claiming-company-replaced-them-with-h-1b-visa-workers/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/12/14/disney-it-workers-f...
  - mildbow 10y ago
    You probably thought I was the parent. Anyway, since it seems to be a sticking point with you, my wife and I are Americans, but I don't believe that Americans, by default, should get a job over immigrants[0]. So it's not everybody :) As I mentioned in a previous comment, I believe in a meritocracy and the pursuit of happiness for all. And, all doesn't mean just people who lucked out by being born in America. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. [0] if the first word that jumped into your head was some variation of "[race] traitor", then I suggest you consider your subconscious biases in this debate.

ConfuciusSay02 10y ago

All immigration serves to drive overall wages down.

mildbow 10y ago
No basic income serves to drive overall wages down.
- ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
  I agree with that, but not sure how it refutes the point I was making.
davidf18 10y ago
But most immigrants from Mexico do not drive down IT workers wages. But abuse and increase of H1-B Visas does down IT worker wages.
- ConfuciusSay02 10y ago
  You can argue it does indirectly. If blue collar job wages are driven very low, more people will choose STEM careers, which will also serve to drive IT job wages down.
- sameAsYou 10y ago
  so, as long as it is not in IT industry, it is okay to drive the wages down ?
  - davidf18 10y ago
    I was simply replying in the context of the article which is regarding abuse of H1-B visas and a fix. Actually it applies to the larger category of all of STEM, not only IT. I don't think it is right to drive anyone's wages down through immigration whether working class or STEM.