4 ms·

I was HNIJ@MIT-MC (and later, rms.g.hnij@mit-oz). I used to be able to google for those addresses and pull up my now-embarrassing questions I posted on various

I was HNIJ@MIT-MC (and later, rms.g.hnij@mit-oz). I used to be able to google for those addresses and pull up my now-embarrassing questions I posted on various mailing lists as a teenager.

DonHopkins 10y ago
Oh yes, I remember you and your eminently googlable uname! I'm just glad that nobody can google the message I sent to the LISP@AI mailing list asking how to set the value of a variable. Soooooo embarrassing! I'm sure KMP's eyes rolled up to the back of his head, but then he took the time to help me out with TEACH-LISP (which Jerry Pournelle was ignorant enough to cite in a not-friendly light when he condemned LISP in his Byte column Cretin Manor [1]). "The man has learned nothing from his presence on MC and sets a bad example of what people might potentially accomplish there. I'd rather recycle his account for some bright 12-yr-old..." -KMP "One thing that is known about ARPA: you can be heaved off it for supporting the policies of the Department of Defense. Of course that was intended to anger me. If you have an ARPA account, please tell CSTACY that he was successful; now let us see if my Pentagon friends can upset him. Or perhaps some reporter friends. Or both., Or even the House Armed Services Committee." -POURNE Speaking of googling for unames, it's amusing how POURNE's right wing nut bag GamerGate supporters defended him by complaining about KLOTZ's name and presumed gender [2]: "The first thing I noticed was that the nasty message to Dr. Pournelle came from a woman bureaucrat. Those broads are the worst type of mean, nasty and petty, hiding their vindictiveness behind a facade of professional-sounding language. Love Jerry's response! Seppuku, ha!" In reply one of them attempted to dox and defame the people on USER-A and their infamous careers and naming conventions: "Actually, if you mean "Leigh L Klotz" that's not a woman. I did a little research on the names there. A Leigh L. Klotz Jr. - male - graduated from MIT in 1989 and went on to work at Xerox PARC and is active on the W3C. Unless there was a Klotz Sr. professoring at MIT (I can't find a record of such), then Dr. Pournelle was being hectored by a snot-nosed undergrad. David Vinayak Wallace I don't have an age or graduation date for, but he went on to co-found Cygnus Support (later merged into Red Hat) in 1989, the same year Klotz graduated. When Wallace got married, he hyphenated his name and now goes by David Henkel-Wallace. Kent Pitman has made a career out of LISP, and responds to Pournelle's criticism of his pet language with typical gamma rage. Like Klotz, he's made committees a big part of his life. Having worked with the W3C in the past, I have very little respect for anyone who maintains a long-standing releationship with that body. It is a perfect warren of passive-aggressive rabbits." "Klotz"? Seriously? "Take note of Aspinall as well. For our hodge-podge of a language and culture, it kind of sucks that we don't have the kind of family names that readily describe family values or characteristics in the plain language like, say, Russian does. It makes for a better sense of irony and justice when telling the story. Treasure the times when the power of fate brings them together in English, like here for instance." [1] http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html [2] http://voxday.blogspot.md/2014/12/some-things-never-change.html http://voxday.blogspot.md/2014/12/some-things-never-change.h...
- leighklotz 10y ago
  I'm still klotz, though I use unix now.
  - DonHopkins 10y ago
    What's this I hear from the GamerGate folks about you being a woman bureaucrat, a broad who is the worst type of mean, nasty and petty, hiding your vindictiveness behind a facade of professional-sounding language (they do say Logo is just Lisp without parens), and also a snot nosed hectoring undergrad? You've been an inspiration to us all, and the computer industry need more nasty women like you! I heard an alternative fact that Kent Pitman develop a New Implementation of Lisp in which NIL equals T, which inspired many other popular languages like PHP and JavaScript to adopt alternative definitions of equality, based on the insight that all objects are equal, but some objects are more equal than others. And speaking of bright 12-year-olds, I heard that David Vinayak Wallace was the youngest kid to ever have his own office at the MIT-AI Lab, and as a small brown child he once schooled Jerry Pournelle for free [1]: Date: Sunday, 2 January 1983, 22:48-EST From: David Vinayak Wallace Subject: The changing face of Micro-computing... Date: 31 December 1982 04:00-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle (I re-ordered some of your statements) The notion that "It's too late for the parents" is goofy. Bill and Sibyl Grieb have packed classes at everywoman's Village on using computers; they teach CP/M and customization and all that. Patience: it took far longer for the "average citizen" to learn enough mechanics to be able to be comfortable using cars than it is taking for people to get used to computers. I think this example shows why it IS too late. You can always find a few exceptions to the rule; these exceptions are a tiny (>.5%) part of the actual computer user. I doesn't take mechanical knowledge to drive a car, it takes mechanical knowledge to modify or repair an automobile. most people (me included) would rather buy a vanilla car and just have it work all the time. I change the oil (more than most people do), but have a mechanic do the real work. The problem with adult learners are the ones I had: no one seems to know how to explain things in English. You have to learn a lot more than you really need to in order to be able to do much of anything. Some of us, though, are trying to change that, and a few of us are not only doing something about it, but getting paid to. The High Priest mentality in which one accepts whatever a highly paid computer technician tells you, is dying away in industry already, and the micro world ain't going to let it get a foot hold... I'm biased, but I don't think this will really work. You can't discuss complex concepts without the proper language. I agree that there is a bit of High Priest mentality and that there is no good effort to teach the JARGON, but every "normal language" explanation of anything having to do with computers comes out muddled, long-winded, and ultimately, unclear.. Some of us even do it for free. david [1] https://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~cwm/NetStuff/Human-Nets/Volume6.html https://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~cwm/NetStuff/Human-Nets/Volume6....

I was HNIJ@MIT-MC (and later, rms.g.hnij@mit-oz). I used to be able to google for those addresses and pull up my now-embarrassing questions I posted on various mailing lists as a teenager.

DonHopkins 10y ago

Oh yes, I remember you and your eminently googlable uname! I'm just glad that nobody can google the message I sent to the LISP@AI mailing list asking how to set the value of a variable. Soooooo embarrassing! I'm sure KMP's eyes rolled up to the back of his head, but then he took the time to help me out with TEACH-LISP (which Jerry Pournelle was ignorant enough to cite in a not-friendly light when he condemned LISP in his Byte column Cretin Manor [1]). "The man has learned nothing from his presence on MC and sets a bad example of what people might potentially accomplish there. I'd rather recycle his account for some bright 12-yr-old..." -KMP "One thing that is known about ARPA: you can be heaved off it for supporting the policies of the Department of Defense. Of course that was intended to anger me. If you have an ARPA account, please tell CSTACY that he was successful; now let us see if my Pentagon friends can upset him. Or perhaps some reporter friends. Or both., Or even the House Armed Services Committee." -POURNE Speaking of googling for unames, it's amusing how POURNE's right wing nut bag GamerGate supporters defended him by complaining about KLOTZ's name and presumed gender [2]: "The first thing I noticed was that the nasty message to Dr. Pournelle came from a woman bureaucrat. Those broads are the worst type of mean, nasty and petty, hiding their vindictiveness behind a facade of professional-sounding language. Love Jerry's response! Seppuku, ha!" In reply one of them attempted to dox and defame the people on USER-A and their infamous careers and naming conventions: "Actually, if you mean "Leigh L Klotz" that's not a woman. I did a little research on the names there. A Leigh L. Klotz Jr. - male - graduated from MIT in 1989 and went on to work at Xerox PARC and is active on the W3C. Unless there was a Klotz Sr. professoring at MIT (I can't find a record of such), then Dr. Pournelle was being hectored by a snot-nosed undergrad. David Vinayak Wallace I don't have an age or graduation date for, but he went on to co-found Cygnus Support (later merged into Red Hat) in 1989, the same year Klotz graduated. When Wallace got married, he hyphenated his name and now goes by David Henkel-Wallace. Kent Pitman has made a career out of LISP, and responds to Pournelle's criticism of his pet language with typical gamma rage. Like Klotz, he's made committees a big part of his life. Having worked with the W3C in the past, I have very little respect for anyone who maintains a long-standing releationship with that body. It is a perfect warren of passive-aggressive rabbits." "Klotz"? Seriously? "Take note of Aspinall as well. For our hodge-podge of a language and culture, it kind of sucks that we don't have the kind of family names that readily describe family values or characteristics in the plain language like, say, Russian does. It makes for a better sense of irony and justice when telling the story. Treasure the times when the power of fate brings them together in English, like here for instance." [1] http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html http://www.stormtiger.org/bob/humor/pournell/story.html [2] http://voxday.blogspot.md/2014/12/some-things-never-change.html http://voxday.blogspot.md/2014/12/some-things-never-change.h...

leighklotz 10y ago
I'm still klotz, though I use unix now.
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  What's this I hear from the GamerGate folks about you being a woman bureaucrat, a broad who is the worst type of mean, nasty and petty, hiding your vindictiveness behind a facade of professional-sounding language (they do say Logo is just Lisp without parens), and also a snot nosed hectoring undergrad? You've been an inspiration to us all, and the computer industry need more nasty women like you! I heard an alternative fact that Kent Pitman develop a New Implementation of Lisp in which NIL equals T, which inspired many other popular languages like PHP and JavaScript to adopt alternative definitions of equality, based on the insight that all objects are equal, but some objects are more equal than others. And speaking of bright 12-year-olds, I heard that David Vinayak Wallace was the youngest kid to ever have his own office at the MIT-AI Lab, and as a small brown child he once schooled Jerry Pournelle for free [1]: Date: Sunday, 2 January 1983, 22:48-EST From: David Vinayak Wallace Subject: The changing face of Micro-computing... Date: 31 December 1982 04:00-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle (I re-ordered some of your statements) The notion that "It's too late for the parents" is goofy. Bill and Sibyl Grieb have packed classes at everywoman's Village on using computers; they teach CP/M and customization and all that. Patience: it took far longer for the "average citizen" to learn enough mechanics to be able to be comfortable using cars than it is taking for people to get used to computers. I think this example shows why it IS too late. You can always find a few exceptions to the rule; these exceptions are a tiny (>.5%) part of the actual computer user. I doesn't take mechanical knowledge to drive a car, it takes mechanical knowledge to modify or repair an automobile. most people (me included) would rather buy a vanilla car and just have it work all the time. I change the oil (more than most people do), but have a mechanic do the real work. The problem with adult learners are the ones I had: no one seems to know how to explain things in English. You have to learn a lot more than you really need to in order to be able to do much of anything. Some of us, though, are trying to change that, and a few of us are not only doing something about it, but getting paid to. The High Priest mentality in which one accepts whatever a highly paid computer technician tells you, is dying away in industry already, and the micro world ain't going to let it get a foot hold... I'm biased, but I don't think this will really work. You can't discuss complex concepts without the proper language. I agree that there is a bit of High Priest mentality and that there is no good effort to teach the JARGON, but every "normal language" explanation of anything having to do with computers comes out muddled, long-winded, and ultimately, unclear.. Some of us even do it for free. david [1] https://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~cwm/NetStuff/Human-Nets/Volume6.html https://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~cwm/NetStuff/Human-Nets/Volume6....