4 ms·

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court or

by beat 10y ago

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court orders. Legislators are going to airports to see that travelers arriving in their district and being detained are allowed access to counsel, and they're not allowed to meet with the detainees. This is a constitutional crisis. This is not about the right or wrong of the travel ban, not anymore. This is about the Executive branch simply ignoring the Judicial and Legislative branches, and ruling by decree. This is a breakdown of the rule of law. Within the week, we will see judges order the arrest of Customs/TSA agents, and possibly Trump administration officials, for contempt of court. Will the US Marshals enforce those warrants? Or will they obey Trump's orders and stand down? If the administration does not stand down, I expect to see elected legislators, and possibly judges, being arrested within the next few weeks. Are you okay with that? Again, it's not about the right or wrong of the travel ban. It's about whether the president obeys the courts, as required by the Constitution.

humanrebar 10y ago
It's a complex set of events, but America is overdue for some stronger checks on the executive branch. I think it's also fair to say the executive branch has unique power in security affairs that the judicial branch can overstep its authority in. I'm not supporting these actions, here. I might go either way on them, honestly, but it's hard for me to get too worked up about constitutional crises now given all the executive actions that have been largely accepted as normal over the last sixteen years or so.
- beat 10y ago
  A temporary restraining order in a non-emergency is not overstepping any authority. I see absolutely no reason why this is too important to go through due process.
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    There's a good point there, but I can also see the merit of letting the commander in chief get the benefit of the doubt, especially since we're not talking about U.S. citizens as far as I can tell.
    - beat 10y ago
      No, but US citizens are affected. The US-born children of long-term non-citizen residents may lose a parent, for example, if that parent isn't let back in. The other day, a lawyer friend of mine had to advise a client of his not to return home to visit his dying father. This client has lived in the US for 20 years, and runs a business employing six US citizens. But if he goes to visit his father, he may not be allowed back into the US. That father will die without seeing his eldest son because of this policy. But if this man has American-born children (I don't know if he does), he might be permanently separated from his children if he visits his dying father. Think about the implications.
      - humanrebar 10y ago
        I am. I have a friend here on refugee status from one of the relevant countries.
losteverything 10y ago
<<This is a constitutional crisis. I have faith our process will "manage" this. But I find myself VERY upset reading your comment as well as many other reactions to exe. order How much more can I take? I see signs "whatever it takes to remove trump" that has so much negativity behind it. "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. This is quite unhealthy for me. I compare it to second hand smoke before the surgeon generals report.
- beat 10y ago
  Two weeks ago, I had faith in the process. I'm rapidly losing that faith. Where I live, we have 30,000 Somali immigrants (and some of their US-born citizen children). I'm starting to think of what we would have to do to hide Somalis in our house to protect them from arrest and deportation. And you think you're upset? Why on Earth should I ever have to consider hiding people in my house, here in America?
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    My wife and I were discussing similar scenarios over the weekend. She noted that as long as "we" can still have these discussions - as long as "we" still feel like we can have these discussions and do have these discussions (ie - we're not self-censoring or being censored by the govt) - then things are still working. I understand your position - do your best to continue "keeping the faith" in our institutions, people, citizens, etc. Ultimately, know you're not alone - that there are many others out there feeling the same as you, and somehow we will right the wrongs against our country and Constitution as required and needed.
- yongjik 10y ago
  > "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. I'll reserve such a statement until (God forbid) some Democrat governor supports conversion therapy for Trump supporters.
- hsod 10y ago
  Something very very bad is happening to our institutions. Resistance will be unpleasant and scary. Stay strong, stay close to your support system, and keep your eye on the ball.
cylinder 10y ago
The orders have not been suspended. The Judge ordered that refugee arrivals should not be sent back to their home countries due to the risk of danger.
- Eridrus 10y ago
  There have been two separate rulings, one of them says that detainees should be granted access to their lawyer.

by beat 10y ago

humanrebar 10y ago

It's a complex set of events, but America is overdue for some stronger checks on the executive branch. I think it's also fair to say the executive branch has unique power in security affairs that the judicial branch can overstep its authority in. I'm not supporting these actions, here. I might go either way on them, honestly, but it's hard for me to get too worked up about constitutional crises now given all the executive actions that have been largely accepted as normal over the last sixteen years or so.

beat 10y ago
A temporary restraining order in a non-emergency is not overstepping any authority. I see absolutely no reason why this is too important to go through due process.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  There's a good point there, but I can also see the merit of letting the commander in chief get the benefit of the doubt, especially since we're not talking about U.S. citizens as far as I can tell.
  - beat 10y ago
    No, but US citizens are affected. The US-born children of long-term non-citizen residents may lose a parent, for example, if that parent isn't let back in. The other day, a lawyer friend of mine had to advise a client of his not to return home to visit his dying father. This client has lived in the US for 20 years, and runs a business employing six US citizens. But if he goes to visit his father, he may not be allowed back into the US. That father will die without seeing his eldest son because of this policy. But if this man has American-born children (I don't know if he does), he might be permanently separated from his children if he visits his dying father. Think about the implications.
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      I am. I have a friend here on refugee status from one of the relevant countries.

losteverything 10y ago

<<This is a constitutional crisis. I have faith our process will "manage" this. But I find myself VERY upset reading your comment as well as many other reactions to exe. order How much more can I take? I see signs "whatever it takes to remove trump" that has so much negativity behind it. "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. This is quite unhealthy for me. I compare it to second hand smoke before the surgeon generals report.

beat 10y ago
Two weeks ago, I had faith in the process. I'm rapidly losing that faith. Where I live, we have 30,000 Somali immigrants (and some of their US-born citizen children). I'm starting to think of what we would have to do to hide Somalis in our house to protect them from arrest and deportation. And you think you're upset? Why on Earth should I ever have to consider hiding people in my house, here in America?
- cr0sh 10y ago
  My wife and I were discussing similar scenarios over the weekend. She noted that as long as "we" can still have these discussions - as long as "we" still feel like we can have these discussions and do have these discussions (ie - we're not self-censoring or being censored by the govt) - then things are still working. I understand your position - do your best to continue "keeping the faith" in our institutions, people, citizens, etc. Ultimately, know you're not alone - that there are many others out there feeling the same as you, and somehow we will right the wrongs against our country and Constitution as required and needed.
yongjik 10y ago
> "Trump" is now a word like being "gay" was growing up. I'll reserve such a statement until (God forbid) some Democrat governor supports conversion therapy for Trump supporters.
hsod 10y ago
Something very very bad is happening to our institutions. Resistance will be unpleasant and scary. Stay strong, stay close to your support system, and keep your eye on the ball.

cylinder 10y ago

The orders have not been suspended. The Judge ordered that refugee arrivals should not be sent back to their home countries due to the risk of danger.

Eridrus 10y ago
There have been two separate rulings, one of them says that detainees should be granted access to their lawyer.