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All your reasons why race isn't real is simply because legal/cultural definitions of it can change dependent on legal and social norms. So can the idea of "Ame

All your reasons why race isn't real is simply because legal/cultural definitions of it can change dependent on legal and social norms. So can the idea of "Americanness" - either laws around citizenship/work permission/etc, or cultural/social norms around this.

crdoconnor 10y ago
American = has citizenship. Conferred by the very real US citizenship and immigration service. That isn't a particularly unclear definition.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  The US has had clear definitions of race in the past - e.g. "1/16 or more". If we adopt such a definition, will you drop your objections to legalized racism? If not, why not? It's ok, we've discussed this before. I don't expect anything other than evasion of the core philosophical issue.
  - crdoconnor 10y ago
    The point I made very clearly before is the same as the one I made now. If you are a US citizen, subject to US laws enforced by the very real institution of the US government which you live under, the US government owes you a living. If you are, say, a Mongolian citizen, the US government doesn't owe you a living. Your opinion was apparently that the US owes Mongolian citizens the same thing it owes US citizens, because... reasons. If you are of any particular race that is an irrelevance. An irrelevance you keep bringing up because you are obsessed with race to a point that is frankly disturbing.
pm90 10y ago
I'll take a stab: the world is fundamentally unfair to a certain extent...but we want to reduce that. In a perfect world, there should be no restrictions on immigration. However, we live in a world with vast inequalities and differences in culture, wealth etc. So while nationalism is unfair we live with it for now. Racism is analogous, but it concerned people within the US border, governed by US law, already part of US society, and its important for the fairness within the country and society that it be eliminated (not to mention that minorities did protest against institutional racism....and they could not be deported as they are US citizens).

crdoconnor 10y ago

American = has citizenship. Conferred by the very real US citizenship and immigration service. That isn't a particularly unclear definition.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
The US has had clear definitions of race in the past - e.g. "1/16 or more". If we adopt such a definition, will you drop your objections to legalized racism? If not, why not? It's ok, we've discussed this before. I don't expect anything other than evasion of the core philosophical issue.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  The point I made very clearly before is the same as the one I made now. If you are a US citizen, subject to US laws enforced by the very real institution of the US government which you live under, the US government owes you a living. If you are, say, a Mongolian citizen, the US government doesn't owe you a living. Your opinion was apparently that the US owes Mongolian citizens the same thing it owes US citizens, because... reasons. If you are of any particular race that is an irrelevance. An irrelevance you keep bringing up because you are obsessed with race to a point that is frankly disturbing.

pm90 10y ago

I'll take a stab: the world is fundamentally unfair to a certain extent...but we want to reduce that. In a perfect world, there should be no restrictions on immigration. However, we live in a world with vast inequalities and differences in culture, wealth etc. So while nationalism is unfair we live with it for now. Racism is analogous, but it concerned people within the US border, governed by US law, already part of US society, and its important for the fairness within the country and society that it be eliminated (not to mention that minorities did protest against institutional racism....and they could not be deported as they are US citizens).