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> Ditto at John Deere dealerships, which repair million-dollar farming machinery filled with several dozen computers. Fixing tractors and grain harvesters now r

> Ditto at John Deere dealerships, which repair million-dollar farming machinery filled with several dozen computers. Fixing tractors and grain harvesters now requires advanced math and comprehension skills and the ability to solve problems on the fly. “The toolbox is now a computer,” I don't know about America but here repairing expensive machinery is the job of engineers, not factory worker. The latter's work involve pushing button, soldering, assembling etc.. but not something that require critical thinking or problem solving. Automation is still either 1. more expensive than manual worker (in case of FMS) or 2. only applicable for large scale/high value added manufacturing. FMS: Flexible Manufacturing System.

crispyambulance 10y ago
Yes, at electronics CM's outside of the US there exists a deep spectrum of workers ranging from "operators" (button-pushers), to RMA/debug-techs, to various types of engineers FMA, process, quality, and manufacturing. Capable workers typically move up the chain and free training is provided by the employer (often US-owned companies like Flextronics and Sanmina). One of the sad things about USA-based manufacturing is that there are very scarce opportunities for the lowest level techs to "climb the ladder". Employers in the US are rigidly fixated on labor as a cost-center rather than as an investment. As a result you have small staff-counts of highly skilled "super-techs" and engineers with degrees, it has stabilized to this in the last ~20 years. Its really great that Siemens is introducing such an apprentice program to the US. Hopefully others will follow the model.
- sharemywin 10y ago
  I don't think it's limited to manufacturing. If you aren't already an expert in the technology companies won't hire you in IT/Development either.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Same here in Germany, in many companies experience on side projects doesn't count. It has to be officially on the job, preferably even mentioned on the letter of reference given by the employer or alongside some certificate.
JshWright 10y ago
Someone who repairs farm equipment would generally be called a "mechanic" around here (upstate New York).
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Not sure about farming but here in Ohio, I've heard similar roles in other domains called an "engineering tech" [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_technician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_technician
  - tunap 10y ago
    In AZ we now have drywall techs and landscape engineers. Don't assume these lofty new names accompany any sort of rise in wages, it's merely newspeak.
- randcraw 10y ago
  The US military has had technical MOSes (mil. occupational specialty) for 40+ years that require specialized skills to maintain and repair the many nav, sensor, and weapons platforms they use. These definitely aren't mechanics. They often require ~two years of specialized training prior to 'shipping out'. Maybe the Navy's BEEP (Basic Electricity Electronics 'P') schools also should be looked to as how we might prepare specialists for future trades.
randomdata 10y ago
As an owner of one of those high-priced John Deere grain harvesters, who has spent plenty of time repairing it, I'm left wondering what advanced math is used? Certainly some of the control systems will contain software that uses advanced math, but I cannot imagine the tech coming out and fixing a bug in that software like that out in the field. In that case, in my experience, it's usually more of a "The computer's broken. Let's replace it completely."
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- coconut_crab 10y ago
  For some of the CNC systems I have had experience with, repairing means figuring out which parts are broken and need to be replaced, sometimes it's just trial and error.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    A lot of things can be broken but there are a lot of software and hardware patching that tech do. During my military service we had a plotter that was used to print aerial and spatial photography it went haywire one day and the HP tech said the alignment heads were screwed. While he did order a new part he also downloaded the firmware from the device, opened it in a hex editor and manually patched some values to give us some print capability back. So instead of the print heads not wanting to go beyond half the width of the role it was limited to about 80-85% of the width with more or less even edges. So even when you need to fix what is effectively macro-machinery there are a lot of things that you need to do and being able to understand EE and programming concepts is a must. The tech wasn't an engineer (BSc./MSc), but most likely had the equivalent of a 2 year engineering degree / programme. I don't think there are a lot of low and even medium skilled jobs today especially not in anything that relates to manufacturing, repairs and similar fields that one can do without quite a bit of knowledge. That said even in in the "educated" community information and knowledge has degraded, people don't know how to fix basic things, don't know how to solve problems other than "just google it", I can count on one hand the amount of people I know that can install a dimmer properly without connecting hot to ground.
LordKano 10y ago
Engineers are needed to create the diagnostic and repair procedures but skilled technicians can and should be the ones to implement them. "Fault detected. Replace Sub-Assembly D, Board 3." is the kind of instruction that can be given to a factory worker to complete a repair. An engineer's time would be wasted performing this kind of work.

crispyambulance 10y ago

Yes, at electronics CM's outside of the US there exists a deep spectrum of workers ranging from "operators" (button-pushers), to RMA/debug-techs, to various types of engineers FMA, process, quality, and manufacturing. Capable workers typically move up the chain and free training is provided by the employer (often US-owned companies like Flextronics and Sanmina). One of the sad things about USA-based manufacturing is that there are very scarce opportunities for the lowest level techs to "climb the ladder". Employers in the US are rigidly fixated on labor as a cost-center rather than as an investment. As a result you have small staff-counts of highly skilled "super-techs" and engineers with degrees, it has stabilized to this in the last ~20 years. Its really great that Siemens is introducing such an apprentice program to the US. Hopefully others will follow the model.

sharemywin 10y ago
I don't think it's limited to manufacturing. If you aren't already an expert in the technology companies won't hire you in IT/Development either.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Same here in Germany, in many companies experience on side projects doesn't count. It has to be officially on the job, preferably even mentioned on the letter of reference given by the employer or alongside some certificate.

JshWright 10y ago

Someone who repairs farm equipment would generally be called a "mechanic" around here (upstate New York).

tedmiston 10y ago
Not sure about farming but here in Ohio, I've heard similar roles in other domains called an "engineering tech" [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_technician https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_technician
- tunap 10y ago
  In AZ we now have drywall techs and landscape engineers. Don't assume these lofty new names accompany any sort of rise in wages, it's merely newspeak.
randcraw 10y ago
The US military has had technical MOSes (mil. occupational specialty) for 40+ years that require specialized skills to maintain and repair the many nav, sensor, and weapons platforms they use. These definitely aren't mechanics. They often require ~two years of specialized training prior to 'shipping out'. Maybe the Navy's BEEP (Basic Electricity Electronics 'P') schools also should be looked to as how we might prepare specialists for future trades.

randomdata 10y ago

As an owner of one of those high-priced John Deere grain harvesters, who has spent plenty of time repairing it, I'm left wondering what advanced math is used? Certainly some of the control systems will contain software that uses advanced math, but I cannot imagine the tech coming out and fixing a bug in that software like that out in the field. In that case, in my experience, it's usually more of a "The computer's broken. Let's replace it completely."

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
coconut_crab 10y ago
For some of the CNC systems I have had experience with, repairing means figuring out which parts are broken and need to be replaced, sometimes it's just trial and error.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  A lot of things can be broken but there are a lot of software and hardware patching that tech do. During my military service we had a plotter that was used to print aerial and spatial photography it went haywire one day and the HP tech said the alignment heads were screwed. While he did order a new part he also downloaded the firmware from the device, opened it in a hex editor and manually patched some values to give us some print capability back. So instead of the print heads not wanting to go beyond half the width of the role it was limited to about 80-85% of the width with more or less even edges. So even when you need to fix what is effectively macro-machinery there are a lot of things that you need to do and being able to understand EE and programming concepts is a must. The tech wasn't an engineer (BSc./MSc), but most likely had the equivalent of a 2 year engineering degree / programme. I don't think there are a lot of low and even medium skilled jobs today especially not in anything that relates to manufacturing, repairs and similar fields that one can do without quite a bit of knowledge. That said even in in the "educated" community information and knowledge has degraded, people don't know how to fix basic things, don't know how to solve problems other than "just google it", I can count on one hand the amount of people I know that can install a dimmer properly without connecting hot to ground.

LordKano 10y ago

Engineers are needed to create the diagnostic and repair procedures but skilled technicians can and should be the ones to implement them. "Fault detected. Replace Sub-Assembly D, Board 3." is the kind of instruction that can be given to a factory worker to complete a repair. An engineer's time would be wasted performing this kind of work.