3 ms·

The uproar is not about blocked visas.

imron 10y ago
That's right, surely the uproar is about all the bombing and killing that the US has been doing in 5 of the 7 countries listed on the visa ban list. I mean human lives are worth more than visas right? And if that bombing had never happened, we wouldn't have the humanitarian crisis that led to so many refugees coming from those countries. Well, at least that's what I wish more people were concerned about, but where were the protests when the Nobel peace prize winning president was doing those things? It was met largely with silence, and definitely not large scale protests.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  Clearly because the bombing didn't negatively affect the type of people that middle-class professionals know. In fact, quite the opposite; the profits made from selling weapons to the US government to bomb everywhere, or to the Saudis to bomb Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world, or to various dictators to pacify their own populations, those profits provide that middle-class professional lifestyle for many. And often, our middle-class friends from other countries are actually connected to those dictatorial regimes, because those regimes choose who gets to be middle-class in those countries.
  - themgt 10y ago
    Ding ding, there's the cynical and at least partly correct answer - Obama bombing poor Muslims while acting like it's a pained #LesserEvil choice was a-OK with liberals: shrug & grimace and let's go back to a craft beer at Moral HighGround Cafe. Trump gleefully doing a 90 day transit suspension on Ivy-league/Silicon Valley Muslim PhDs?! A Hitlerian crime against humanity! Don't get me wrong, I think this order, especially applied to LPRs, is crap. But having been deported from a country before for what I considered an unjust cause, I'll take that over being drone bombed to death any day of the week. And yes your average citizen of Yemen likely already had a better chance having a US (via Saudi) weapon dropped on their head than being granted a visa.
- nodamage 10y ago
  I'm amazed by the cognitive dissonance necessary to equate people who are legal permanent residents of the United States with militants who are the targets of military action in ISIS-controlled territory. I also think it's hilarious that the right is now all of a sudden pretending to give a shit about all the "bombing and killing the US has been doing" when they clearly supported the invasion of Iraq and all the military actions in the Middle East undertaken by Bush that have lead us to where we are today.
  - imron 10y ago
    Firstly, I'm not on the right. I used to consider myself on the left, but given the Left's recent behaviour I no longer feel I belong there either. I'm also not from the US. I am however of Muslim heritage. My parents are Muslim (though not the middle-eastern variety) but they encouraged me and my siblings to make our own choice regarding religion (not all Islam is as strict on this as is made out). I chose not to follow a religion, though from a cultural perspective there are aspects that are still a part of who I am. With that out of the way, I will say that it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to believe that the US is only bombing militants [0]. I mean sure bombing that hospital was an accident, and it doesn't happen all that often and the US would never bomb innocent civilians right? After all the official count of civilian casualties due to bombing is very low, right? Of course it is, because thanks to the previous administration, all military aged men killed by drones are automatically assumed to be military combatants regardless of whether they were or not [1]. And so with stroke of a pen, innocent civilian casualties caused by drone strikes are reduced to single digits. And last year the US dropped an average of 3 bombs an hour on mostly Muslim countries [2], including 5 that are on the current visa ban list, but where was the concern for the citizens of these countries then? The above two items are a far worse affront than the temporary visa ban Trump has instituted, but where was the outrage? the protests? the monthly donations worth thousands of dollars to the ACLU? the tears from senators? the acceptance speeches of celebrities calling out the president? That a visa ban can cause more outrage than either of the above two items makes me angry, and frankly, strikes me as little more than political opportunism and/or people being easily manipulated by political opportunists, rather than genuine concern for the well-being of Muslims. End the Muslim visa ban! I hear. Personally I'd rather end all the bombing of Muslim countries that led to this mess in the first place. I might not like Trump and I might not like this visa ban, but at least one of Trump's campaign messages was to get the US out of foreign wars and to stop with its policy of foreign regime change. The last 10 days have shown that Trump is intent on following through with his campaign promises and if he can fulfill that one, then a temporary visa ban, although inconvenient to many, is an acceptable cost. -- 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bombing-hospital-doctors-without-borders-kunduz.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bo... 1: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-ob... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...

imron 10y ago

That's right, surely the uproar is about all the bombing and killing that the US has been doing in 5 of the 7 countries listed on the visa ban list. I mean human lives are worth more than visas right? And if that bombing had never happened, we wouldn't have the humanitarian crisis that led to so many refugees coming from those countries. Well, at least that's what I wish more people were concerned about, but where were the protests when the Nobel peace prize winning president was doing those things? It was met largely with silence, and definitely not large scale protests.

pessimizer 10y ago
Clearly because the bombing didn't negatively affect the type of people that middle-class professionals know. In fact, quite the opposite; the profits made from selling weapons to the US government to bomb everywhere, or to the Saudis to bomb Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world, or to various dictators to pacify their own populations, those profits provide that middle-class professional lifestyle for many. And often, our middle-class friends from other countries are actually connected to those dictatorial regimes, because those regimes choose who gets to be middle-class in those countries.
- themgt 10y ago
  Ding ding, there's the cynical and at least partly correct answer - Obama bombing poor Muslims while acting like it's a pained #LesserEvil choice was a-OK with liberals: shrug & grimace and let's go back to a craft beer at Moral HighGround Cafe. Trump gleefully doing a 90 day transit suspension on Ivy-league/Silicon Valley Muslim PhDs?! A Hitlerian crime against humanity! Don't get me wrong, I think this order, especially applied to LPRs, is crap. But having been deported from a country before for what I considered an unjust cause, I'll take that over being drone bombed to death any day of the week. And yes your average citizen of Yemen likely already had a better chance having a US (via Saudi) weapon dropped on their head than being granted a visa.
nodamage 10y ago
I'm amazed by the cognitive dissonance necessary to equate people who are legal permanent residents of the United States with militants who are the targets of military action in ISIS-controlled territory. I also think it's hilarious that the right is now all of a sudden pretending to give a shit about all the "bombing and killing the US has been doing" when they clearly supported the invasion of Iraq and all the military actions in the Middle East undertaken by Bush that have lead us to where we are today.
- imron 10y ago
  Firstly, I'm not on the right. I used to consider myself on the left, but given the Left's recent behaviour I no longer feel I belong there either. I'm also not from the US. I am however of Muslim heritage. My parents are Muslim (though not the middle-eastern variety) but they encouraged me and my siblings to make our own choice regarding religion (not all Islam is as strict on this as is made out). I chose not to follow a religion, though from a cultural perspective there are aspects that are still a part of who I am. With that out of the way, I will say that it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to believe that the US is only bombing militants [0]. I mean sure bombing that hospital was an accident, and it doesn't happen all that often and the US would never bomb innocent civilians right? After all the official count of civilian casualties due to bombing is very low, right? Of course it is, because thanks to the previous administration, all military aged men killed by drones are automatically assumed to be military combatants regardless of whether they were or not [1]. And so with stroke of a pen, innocent civilian casualties caused by drone strikes are reduced to single digits. And last year the US dropped an average of 3 bombs an hour on mostly Muslim countries [2], including 5 that are on the current visa ban list, but where was the concern for the citizens of these countries then? The above two items are a far worse affront than the temporary visa ban Trump has instituted, but where was the outrage? the protests? the monthly donations worth thousands of dollars to the ACLU? the tears from senators? the acceptance speeches of celebrities calling out the president? That a visa ban can cause more outrage than either of the above two items makes me angry, and frankly, strikes me as little more than political opportunism and/or people being easily manipulated by political opportunists, rather than genuine concern for the well-being of Muslims. End the Muslim visa ban! I hear. Personally I'd rather end all the bombing of Muslim countries that led to this mess in the first place. I might not like Trump and I might not like this visa ban, but at least one of Trump's campaign messages was to get the US out of foreign wars and to stop with its policy of foreign regime change. The last 10 days have shown that Trump is intent on following through with his campaign promises and if he can fulfill that one, then a temporary visa ban, although inconvenient to many, is an acceptable cost. -- 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bombing-hospital-doctors-without-borders-kunduz.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/asia/afghanistan-bo... 1: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-ob... 2: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...