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I don't live in the USA currently but I have worked there before on a visa and I think the current system does require some sort of an overhaul. The current way

I don't live in the USA currently but I have worked there before on a visa and I think the current system does require some sort of an overhaul. The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse (not the horrific kind but certainly things like having to endure a lack of certain freedom and lack of stability, begging for green cards and the like). If the overhaul is even worse than what they have now then the rest of the world should stop moaning and treat this like an opportunity. Same applies to the immigration thing. If they turn into a basket case and it is hard to trade and do business with them then why not promote conventions and business elsewhere and grow other economies instead.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) Why do we care about increasing inequality and increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition? and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse I'd love to hear what kind of actual abuses an H1B shop can pull off. Make developers work 50 hours/week for the 1-2 months it'll take the developers to find a new job that'll be willing to sponsor the visa?
- throwaway_374 10y ago
  " increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?" Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?
  - icebraining 10y ago
    In the same way that California allowing workers from other states. Some industries already have state-specific licensing requirements, maybe the software industry should too, to keep the riff-raff from flyover country from lowering their wages.
    - bottled_poe 10y ago
      There is no doubt that the software engineering discipline is plagued by passionless amateurs. I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain, while the rest chase the next gravy train.
      - Clubber 10y ago
        >I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain No you don't. It's painful for the good ones too.
        bottled_poe 10y ago
        I'll admit my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)
    - bottled_poe 10y ago
      Perhaps this ideology has been lost these days, but I believe a country has an obligation to provide services and a high quality of life to its citizens (aka taxpayers) before anyone else. Importing employees to fill roles (which local workers could do) cannibalises the taxpayer-funded foundations on which these companies were built.
      - chu4n 10y ago
        H1-B's pay taxes to the state and the federal government too.
    - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
      The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        This is favoring some of its citizens (certain classes of workers) over other citizens (buyers in general, workers affected by reciprocal changes by other countries, etc).
        DarkKomunalec 10y ago
        Those are secondary effects, and it is very much debatable who they favour. I would argue reducing the labour pool gives workers a stronger bargaining position, and thus better wages, reducing the rising income inequality.
- rando444 10y ago
  Here are some good examples: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-egregious-examples-of-H1B-visa-abuse https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-egregious-examples-of-H1...
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  The type of developers at these chop shops are only hired by other chip shops. If you think they are highly skilled workers who can waltz over to Facebook, google, etc and get a job then I've got a bridge to sell you.
jamesrcole 10y ago
> If the overhaul is even worse than what they have now then the rest of the world should stop moaning and treat this like an opportunity It's not only about what non-US people think about it. Whatever happens effects Americans, through the effects on the U.S. economy. It effects potential immigrants. And it effects the rest of the world through its effects on the global economy. I don't live in the US, I don't have any current plans to move there, but I still care about what happens to people in the US and other countries.
- fnord123 10y ago
  affects.
  - varjag 10y ago
    https://xkcd.com/326/ https://xkcd.com/326/
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
  I care too, I'm just suggesting there's not much to gain for non-Americans with complaining and that if the new policy is worse (we don't know if it will be yet) to take it as an opportunity to do something constructive.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) Why do we care about increasing inequality and increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition? and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse I'd love to hear what kind of actual abuses an H1B shop can pull off. Make developers work 50 hours/week for the 1-2 months it'll take the developers to find a new job that'll be willing to sponsor the visa?

throwaway_374 10y ago
" increasing costs to consumers by protecting high-wage American workers from foreign competition?" Sorry I have to disagree, I am the most vehement loather of Trump and his fan base but fundamentally this just encourages a race to the bottom, does it not?
- icebraining 10y ago
  In the same way that California allowing workers from other states. Some industries already have state-specific licensing requirements, maybe the software industry should too, to keep the riff-raff from flyover country from lowering their wages.
  - bottled_poe 10y ago
    There is no doubt that the software engineering discipline is plagued by passionless amateurs. I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain, while the rest chase the next gravy train.
    - Clubber 10y ago
      >I welcome the next dot-com collapse, as only those who love their craft will remain No you don't. It's painful for the good ones too.
      - bottled_poe 10y ago
        I'll admit my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Allowing competition between whites and negroes (by ending Jim Crow, Davis Bacon and similar laws) also encourages a race to the bottom. Do you have any principled reason for opposing those laws? (Note: I'm not calling you "racist" - that's a slur that has lost all meaning these days. I'm taking a policy I'm pretty sure you oppose and asking you for a principled reason why you oppose it.)
  - bottled_poe 10y ago
    Perhaps this ideology has been lost these days, but I believe a country has an obligation to provide services and a high quality of life to its citizens (aka taxpayers) before anyone else. Importing employees to fill roles (which local workers could do) cannibalises the taxpayer-funded foundations on which these companies were built.
    - chu4n 10y ago
      H1-B's pay taxes to the state and the federal government too.
  - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
    The Jim Crow laws were a government favoring some of its citizens over other citizens, whereas these laws favor citizens over foreigners. In my opinion, it is a country's duty to place its own people first, but in the end it's up to the electorate.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      This is favoring some of its citizens (certain classes of workers) over other citizens (buyers in general, workers affected by reciprocal changes by other countries, etc).
      - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
        Those are secondary effects, and it is very much debatable who they favour. I would argue reducing the labour pool gives workers a stronger bargaining position, and thus better wages, reducing the rising income inequality.
rando444 10y ago
Here are some good examples: https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-egregious-examples-of-H1B-visa-abuse https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-egregious-examples-of-H1...
sheepmullet 10y ago
The type of developers at these chop shops are only hired by other chip shops. If you think they are highly skilled workers who can waltz over to Facebook, google, etc and get a job then I've got a bridge to sell you.

jamesrcole 10y ago

> If the overhaul is even worse than what they have now then the rest of the world should stop moaning and treat this like an opportunity It's not only about what non-US people think about it. Whatever happens effects Americans, through the effects on the U.S. economy. It effects potential immigrants. And it effects the rest of the world through its effects on the global economy. I don't live in the US, I don't have any current plans to move there, but I still care about what happens to people in the US and other countries.

fnord123 10y ago
affects.
- varjag 10y ago
  https://xkcd.com/326/ https://xkcd.com/326/
ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
I care too, I'm just suggesting there's not much to gain for non-Americans with complaining and that if the new policy is worse (we don't know if it will be yet) to take it as an opportunity to do something constructive.