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You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

by varjag 10y ago

YarickR 10y ago
Where's 8 year long trail of posts shaming and blaming previous administration and personally pres. Obama for those actions ? I see hypocrisy reigning supreme since Jan 20, from both sides.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Four pages of results right here on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?query="drone%20strikes"&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query="drone%20strikes"&sort=byPopul...
  - XzetaU8 10y ago
    Four pages of mostly zero comment threads.
    - hkailahi 10y ago
      FYI most HN posts don't have comments
      - hueving 10y ago
        Because they didn't get enough votes to make it to the front page long enough for attention.
  - 3131s 10y ago
    13 pages in the last week for 'Trump': https://hn.algolia.com/?query=trump&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=pastWeek&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=trump&sort=byPopularity&prefix... I do however think that Trump is an extreme problem, but also a foreseeable one. I think it's revisionist history to say that Obama's terrible presidency got due attention on HN or anywhere else. Democracy Now! was one of the few outlets that did though, so kudos for posting them.
MisterWebz 10y ago
Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Democracy Now, "Drone Attacks", 152 results, all but two since 2009, overwhelmingly negative. http://m.democracynow.org/tags/282 http://m.democracynow.org/tags/282
  - ashark 10y ago
    Not a lot of people listen to Democracy Now, or read The Nation, or whatever. Unlike the right, the left critiques of (even their own people in) power don't often make it to mainstream news commentary, or interview targets of the mainstream news, so it'd be easy to think there is none if one doesn't consume left news and opinion sources directly.
- sergiosgc 10y ago
  Social response is rarely linear. Think of it as gaining critical mass. Think of it as the droplet that overflows the glass of water. What happened before was wrong. What is happening now is worse, and it got more of the public's attention.
  - hueving 10y ago
    No, the sad part is that this is getting so much more attention because it's visible here and it's the result of a new party in charge. Obama's administration was quietly murdering people without trials in a country we aren't at war with from drones. I fail to see how a temporary immigration ban is "worse" other than the "out of sight, out of mind" effect that applies to those exterminated by drones.
    - vacri 10y ago
      The administration before Obama started a needless war with a country that was no threat to them, that resulted in the deaths of literally hundreds of thousands of people, the destruction of two sovereign countries, and set in motion a sequence of events that has Europe tearing itself apart. All to get an electoral boost for the 2004 election...
rdtsc 10y ago
The level of outrage doesn't seem to make sense. If they are ready to donate to ACLU, drive to a protest at an airport, subscribe for more media, over a botched travel ban surely they protesting 10x harder when actual killing was talking place. I even got an email from Lyft about it. A driving app on my phone is now telling about this travel ban too and how much they are donating to the ACLU.
- varjag 10y ago
  We must be from parallel universes, because there were massive protests against Iraq war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003,_anti-war_protests#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003,_anti-war_pr...
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    Not parallel universe. That was more than a decade ago. Why go back in 2003. We just dropped more than 26k bombs just in 2016. Where were these CEOs and tech leaders then? Were they blocking the entrance to the Pentagon, or WH? With the resources of Brin and others, surely there is a track of heavy lobbying against such things if they indeed seem to deeply care about the fate of refugees https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...
    - varjag 10y ago
      You realize that you are now shifting the context from original "protesting wars, black sites and torture" - which are Iraq war theme - to a tiny subset of military activity that was protested least, precisely because they were protested least? Of course you do, and you are using it as rhetorical device only, you couldn't care less about people bombed. If I go and find protests and statements against droning, you'd switch to Delta raids, TOW shipments or whatelse. The purpose of exercise is to show that people opposing Muslim bans are not any better and are simply hypocrites, hence the scrupulous fact-combing.

You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

by varjag 10y ago

You are arguing strawman. Most people who are anti-ban were also against Iraq war and waterboarding.

Where's 8 year long trail of posts shaming and blaming previous administration and personally pres. Obama for those actions ? I see hypocrisy reigning supreme since Jan 20, from both sides.

dredmorbius 10y ago
Four pages of results right here on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?query="drone%20strikes"&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query="drone%20strikes"&sort=byPopul...
- XzetaU8 10y ago
  Four pages of mostly zero comment threads.
  - hkailahi 10y ago
    FYI most HN posts don't have comments
    - hueving 10y ago
      Because they didn't get enough votes to make it to the front page long enough for attention.
- 3131s 10y ago
  13 pages in the last week for 'Trump': https://hn.algolia.com/?query=trump&sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=pastWeek&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=trump&sort=byPopularity&prefix... I do however think that Trump is an extreme problem, but also a foreseeable one. I think it's revisionist history to say that Obama's terrible presidency got due attention on HN or anywhere else. Democracy Now! was one of the few outlets that did though, so kudos for posting them.

MisterWebz 10y ago

Yet people seemed to be awfully calm when Obama was droning weddings. I'm not saying we should've put so much hate towards Obama as well, I'm saying we should put things into perspective.

dredmorbius 10y ago
Democracy Now, "Drone Attacks", 152 results, all but two since 2009, overwhelmingly negative. http://m.democracynow.org/tags/282 http://m.democracynow.org/tags/282
- ashark 10y ago
  Not a lot of people listen to Democracy Now, or read The Nation, or whatever. Unlike the right, the left critiques of (even their own people in) power don't often make it to mainstream news commentary, or interview targets of the mainstream news, so it'd be easy to think there is none if one doesn't consume left news and opinion sources directly.
sergiosgc 10y ago
Social response is rarely linear. Think of it as gaining critical mass. Think of it as the droplet that overflows the glass of water. What happened before was wrong. What is happening now is worse, and it got more of the public's attention.
- hueving 10y ago
  No, the sad part is that this is getting so much more attention because it's visible here and it's the result of a new party in charge. Obama's administration was quietly murdering people without trials in a country we aren't at war with from drones. I fail to see how a temporary immigration ban is "worse" other than the "out of sight, out of mind" effect that applies to those exterminated by drones.
  - vacri 10y ago
    The administration before Obama started a needless war with a country that was no threat to them, that resulted in the deaths of literally hundreds of thousands of people, the destruction of two sovereign countries, and set in motion a sequence of events that has Europe tearing itself apart. All to get an electoral boost for the 2004 election...

rdtsc 10y ago

The level of outrage doesn't seem to make sense. If they are ready to donate to ACLU, drive to a protest at an airport, subscribe for more media, over a botched travel ban surely they protesting 10x harder when actual killing was talking place. I even got an email from Lyft about it. A driving app on my phone is now telling about this travel ban too and how much they are donating to the ACLU.

varjag 10y ago
We must be from parallel universes, because there were massive protests against Iraq war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003,_anti-war_protests#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003,_anti-war_pr...
- rdtsc 10y ago
  Not parallel universe. That was more than a decade ago. Why go back in 2003. We just dropped more than 26k bombs just in 2016. Where were these CEOs and tech leaders then? Were they blocking the entrance to the Pentagon, or WH? With the resources of Brin and others, surely there is a track of heavy lobbying against such things if they indeed seem to deeply care about the fate of refugees https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/americ...
  - varjag 10y ago
    You realize that you are now shifting the context from original "protesting wars, black sites and torture" - which are Iraq war theme - to a tiny subset of military activity that was protested least, precisely because they were protested least? Of course you do, and you are using it as rhetorical device only, you couldn't care less about people bombed. If I go and find protests and statements against droning, you'd switch to Delta raids, TOW shipments or whatelse. The purpose of exercise is to show that people opposing Muslim bans are not any better and are simply hypocrites, hence the scrupulous fact-combing.