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Just saw this got momentarily flagged into oblivion. The dark forces seem to be gathering. I applaud this effort by leaders in our community to stand up and n

Just saw this got momentarily flagged into oblivion. The dark forces seem to be gathering. I applaud this effort by leaders in our community to stand up and not just let this awful bigotry slide by.

TorKlingberg 10y ago
It keeps getting flagged and vouched back and forth.
- zzleeper 10y ago
  There is a very aggressive set of users that keep flagging politics here. At this point I don't know if they are Trump supporters, or if they just hate anything but tech on HN.
  - grzm 10y ago
    if they just hate anything but tech on HN. There have been plenty of political submissions on HN over the past couple of days. There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. If people are starting to flag political submissions, it may be because there's a limit of how many political submissions there should be. There's a meaningful difference between "anything but tech" (which is a straw man, anyway, as there are plenty of other submissions that aren't tech yet aren't politics) and having so many political submissions and subsequent discussions that end up covering the same ground without any meaningful discourse.
cperciva 10y ago
I vouched it and it went back onto the front page, but it got promptly flagged away again. :-(
- metafunctor 10y ago
  Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - hueving 10y ago
    >gaslighted Let's not use that term here. It's just an appeal to ridicule dressed up as something meaningful.
    - metafunctor 10y ago
      No attempt to ridicule here, just an attempt to convey a concept in one word. Gaslighting, I think, means a kind of manipulation where seeds of doubt are gradually sown, questioning the targets' perception and sanity. I still think it's a great word to use if someone tries to claim that banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist.
      - hueving 10y ago
        Yes, and labeling behavior as that concept is an appeal to ridicule. You are classifying something you disagree with as something designed to mess with your perception of reality rather than actually intellectually engaging it. >banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist Because it's not in most cases (unless a particular race only comes from that set of banned countries). It's xenophobic. Please use the correct terms if you are going to level such strong accusations to such large numbers of people you don't seem to have any understanding of.
        selllikesybok 10y ago
        Racist xenophobia, to be extra accurate.
        grzm 10y ago
        With respect to the word racist and its usage, I think we're in the midst of watching it expand its meaning. I'm not sure what to think about it, given that I both strive to use words carefully and precisely, while also understanding that language changes and attempts to control it can prove ultimately (frustratingly?) futile. I'd hate for that to be one more thing that gets in the way of effective communication, particularly on difficult issues like this. After all, the point is ultimately to communicate: if we let strict adherence to a single definition of a word from getting in the way of understanding. Better to just ask what meaning is being used if necessary, while perhaps lamenting the loss in precision in silence.
mjmsmith 10y ago
Yep, I've been watching it bouncing in and out for the last 20 minutes or so.
drusepth 10y ago
I flagged because it accomplishes nothing but open up yet another venue for people on both sides to argue and complain. It doesn't make any argument to change, or suggest solutions, or otherwise advocate civil discourse other than "Yeah, I agree!" or "Yeah, I disagree!"
- te_chris 10y ago
  That seems like a very selfish (and petty) response. You can just ignore it, you know.
  - drusepth 10y ago
    The purpose of flagging is to indicate that a story does not belong on HN. I think I've explained why I feel this is particularly a low-quality submission, and flagged accordingly. I don't see how you can think that is selfish or petty, unless you think having yet another thread to just complain in is actually helping anyone. Either way, I don't want to get into an argument here (obviously), so I'll pop out of this thread now and leave my flag behind. If people want to vouch it out, that's fine too.
grzm 10y ago
Dark forces seem to be gathering? There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. HN, a site which is explicitly not for extensive political discussion. A lot of members are flagging because they're exhausted by the number of political articles.

Just saw this got momentarily flagged into oblivion. The dark forces seem to be gathering. I applaud this effort by leaders in our community to stand up and not just let this awful bigotry slide by.

TorKlingberg 10y ago

It keeps getting flagged and vouched back and forth.

zzleeper 10y ago
There is a very aggressive set of users that keep flagging politics here. At this point I don't know if they are Trump supporters, or if they just hate anything but tech on HN.
- grzm 10y ago
  if they just hate anything but tech on HN. There have been plenty of political submissions on HN over the past couple of days. There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. If people are starting to flag political submissions, it may be because there's a limit of how many political submissions there should be. There's a meaningful difference between "anything but tech" (which is a straw man, anyway, as there are plenty of other submissions that aren't tech yet aren't politics) and having so many political submissions and subsequent discussions that end up covering the same ground without any meaningful discourse.

cperciva 10y ago

I vouched it and it went back onto the front page, but it got promptly flagged away again. :-(

metafunctor 10y ago
Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hueving 10y ago
  >gaslighted Let's not use that term here. It's just an appeal to ridicule dressed up as something meaningful.
  - metafunctor 10y ago
    No attempt to ridicule here, just an attempt to convey a concept in one word. Gaslighting, I think, means a kind of manipulation where seeds of doubt are gradually sown, questioning the targets' perception and sanity. I still think it's a great word to use if someone tries to claim that banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist.
    - hueving 10y ago
      Yes, and labeling behavior as that concept is an appeal to ridicule. You are classifying something you disagree with as something designed to mess with your perception of reality rather than actually intellectually engaging it. >banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist Because it's not in most cases (unless a particular race only comes from that set of banned countries). It's xenophobic. Please use the correct terms if you are going to level such strong accusations to such large numbers of people you don't seem to have any understanding of.
      - selllikesybok 10y ago
        Racist xenophobia, to be extra accurate.
      - grzm 10y ago
        With respect to the word racist and its usage, I think we're in the midst of watching it expand its meaning. I'm not sure what to think about it, given that I both strive to use words carefully and precisely, while also understanding that language changes and attempts to control it can prove ultimately (frustratingly?) futile. I'd hate for that to be one more thing that gets in the way of effective communication, particularly on difficult issues like this. After all, the point is ultimately to communicate: if we let strict adherence to a single definition of a word from getting in the way of understanding. Better to just ask what meaning is being used if necessary, while perhaps lamenting the loss in precision in silence.

mjmsmith 10y ago

Yep, I've been watching it bouncing in and out for the last 20 minutes or so.

drusepth 10y ago

I flagged because it accomplishes nothing but open up yet another venue for people on both sides to argue and complain. It doesn't make any argument to change, or suggest solutions, or otherwise advocate civil discourse other than "Yeah, I agree!" or "Yeah, I disagree!"

te_chris 10y ago
That seems like a very selfish (and petty) response. You can just ignore it, you know.
- drusepth 10y ago
  The purpose of flagging is to indicate that a story does not belong on HN. I think I've explained why I feel this is particularly a low-quality submission, and flagged accordingly. I don't see how you can think that is selfish or petty, unless you think having yet another thread to just complain in is actually helping anyone. Either way, I don't want to get into an argument here (obviously), so I'll pop out of this thread now and leave my flag behind. If people want to vouch it out, that's fine too.

grzm 10y ago

Dark forces seem to be gathering? There's been plenty of political discussion on HN over the past couple of days. HN, a site which is explicitly not for extensive political discussion. A lot of members are flagging because they're exhausted by the number of political articles.