7 ms·

I was trained for the culture wars in home school

71 points by madao 10y ago

arghimonmobile 10y ago
I personally attended an ultra conservative school of about 70 pupils all grades accounted for, based on the ACE system (see http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com for a decent introduction), and while I thankfully managed to escape that scene many years ago (extremely lucky circumstances outside of my own doing), I'm afraid I clearly recognise the vision the author describes. I desperately hope that they are wrong, but I can imagine it being spot on all too well. :( FWIW I too don't have contact with my parents mostly as a result of this, and the level of mental gymnastics in otherwise intelligent and sincere folks is jarring.
ahoka 10y ago
The site sells pins with the label "misandrist". What's next? Swastikas? I thought hate speech is off limits on HN.
- orf 10y ago
  Any comments on the actual article, or just deflections?
  - Inconel 10y ago
    I'm not the person you're responding to but I thought it was a good article. I've only known two people who were homeschooled, and one is an atheist while the other was Christian last time I checked, but not particularly religious, so it was interesting and disheartening to see what goes on in a fundamentalist Christian homeschooled environment. I didn't notice the misandrist pins for sale until it was pointed out but I can't say I like the idea of wearing pins that espouse disdain or prejudice against someone for their gender, or any other reason for that matter. Hopefully this doesn't count as deflection?
- tomp 10y ago
  I guess that's a feminist (probably "far-left feminist") virtue signal - similar to the "I bathe in male tears" tshirts that some self-proclaimed feminists proudly wear. (This of course doesn't make it any less despicable.)
- awjr 10y ago
  What was hateful about the article?
kartan 10y ago
High-quality free state-run secular schools is one of the most important social achievements. In that schools a new generation can grow and learn while minimizing radicalization. That new generation meets people from different cultures and religion since they are children and learn to accept the differences. This doesn't solves all problems, is not a silver bulled, but it improves society at large. I never understood why in the USA parents are allowed to radicalize their children out of society. Now I not just don't understand, but I see how dangerous is the situation.
- gambiting 10y ago
  I genuinely believe that home schooling shouldn't be allowed, except for kids with disabilities which stop them from leaving home. It just seems to me that Americans fear radical islam, while extremely radical Christianity grows right under their noses. I agree that free state-run secular schools are the way to go for modern society.
  - guard-of-terra 10y ago
    > I genuinely believe that home schooling shouldn't be allowed Maybe we should just give kids to bullies to use as slaves? Probably auction them. (School was unarguably the worst period of my life, period. Bonus points for being blamed for that even later on, when affluent and successful) (Nobody ever blames bullies for being ones. They were "just kids". Now you - you do get blamed for having been bullied)
    - gambiting 10y ago
      It's like saying that someone broke your arm at school,so maybe we should break arms of every kid at school. This would never happen with home schooling! My point is - these two are unrelated. I say home schooling shouldn't be allowed, you say you were bullied at school. So is your point that everyone should be home schooled? I mean....bullies are usually bullies because they have shit parents who don't care about their kids. Do you think that home schooling is the answer here?
probably_wrong 10y ago
So... are we going to see any kind of evidence for this? Who's the editor? Who fact-checked the story? Or is a first person story by a political activist on a political website what we call "news" now?
- panic 10y ago
  This isn't news, it's a personal story. You can flag it if it's not the kind of content you'd like to see.
- noelwelsh 10y ago
  Firstly, it's an opinion piece. It's not pretending to be news. Secondly, the article has plenty of links you can follow to get more information. You can follow them and make up your own mind. Or you could crash into this thread demanding cites, one of the classic moves of a troll.
qubyte 10y ago
I was raised and schooled as a Catholic in the UK, and while that's nowhere near as malign as the religious groups mentioned in this article, the final paragraph really resonated with me. It wasn't until university that anyone questioned my beliefs. I patiently heard each argument out and responded with logical gymnastics (I now classify myself as a theological noncognitivist). It was only when a difficult event happened in my life that I began to really question my beliefs and they crumbled (a traumatic experience in itself). The author is spot on when they say that there's nothing you can do to convince these people. The beliefs are so closely held that changing them has to come from the believer.
guard-of-terra 10y ago
I think that Abrahamic religions is perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to Homo Sapiens.
TurlochOTierney 10y ago
Just flagged this by mistake. Fat finger error.
angryredblock 10y ago
Complete misrepresentation of homeschooling based on one person's anecdotal experience. "A single powerful person who is convinced of their own Rightness with no thought of introspection is dangerous." Indeed. Perhaps we'd be better served to stop vilifying an entire subset of the population and actually listen to the parents who have recognized that public education is broken and who are taking other measures to educate their children.
- jhanschoo 10y ago
  It seemed pretty obvious to me that the author was referring to one particular version (christofascist) of homeschooling. For positive experiences with homeschooling, Astra Taylor's essays on it come to mind https://popularresistance.org/the-unschooled-life-astra-taylor-story/ https://popularresistance.org/the-unschooled-life-astra-tayl..., https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/essays/unschooling/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/essays/unschooling/. It seems to me however, from armchair reasoning, lacking any motivation to research this further, that the former version would dominate and be the more public version of homeschooling, given that it co-opts into a popular American agenda with a focused message and mission.
cconcepts 10y ago
Very well written. Although this article is quite emotive and could be considered an extreme point of view, I think it is important to read in order to understand the multitude of voices wanting to be heard in the current quagmire. I disagree with some of the assumptions made but nonetheless think this is a voice that should be heard. As a follower of Jesus (I have to be careful how I say Christian because of how loaded that term has become) I feel sad that the writer is marginalised as if it is something Christ would have done. That Jesus has been attached to a particular political agenda is particularly heartbreaking. Historically, when Christianity has gotten in bed with power it has been bad news for the essence of Christ and the humbling power of His work - I would argue this is because of the corruptibility of humans and not through something inherently wrong with Christianity. I'm sorry for some of the things being done in the name of Christianity but this is an intelligent, thoughtful community - please find out for yourself who Christ really said he was and don't assume that what some powerbrokers say in Christ's name is true - their interests are vested. I hope that HN continues its history of thoughtful, respectful discussion rather than the vitriol I am seeing elsewhere. EDIT: Spelling/grammar
- bambax 10y ago
  > this is an intelligent, thoughtful community I really, really don't think so. "Jesus" (who probably never even existed) isn't the problem, though. Religions are. That they should be "respected" as just a normal human behavior is the problem. That superstition should be considered seriously instead of being fought, esp. in young minds, is the problem. That separate schools should exist in the name of superstition, that people should be allowed to not even send their children to school but indoctrinate them themselves, is the problem. There is such a thing as too much freedom, and the result is catastrophic.
  - m0nty 10y ago
    > I really, really don't think so Hacker News is, I think that was the intended meaning.
  - choko 10y ago
    I'm agnostic and have no strong feelings on religion, and I find your comments very intolerant. Views like yours have no place in this community. It's not ok for you to tell people how they should live their lives.
bambax 10y ago
Why exactly is this flagged? Is it not "interesting"?
vedranm 10y ago
There is a number of usual Left wing talking points which advocate violating freedom of association and therefore don't fit the classical liberal or libertarian world view [1]. Two more grave errors: >They know Trump is easily manipulated and will change his mind with the wind if it makes him feel more powerful and famous. Trump couldn’t care less about policy, a fact he’s made quite obvious. This is a very strong claim to make about someone whose every move in the Office thus far has been promised and rehearsed during the campaign. >The revolution has come and we are the resistance. I find this claim funny given that the Left has overtook the universities, the media, and Hollywood, and did so quite often using the tactics outlined in Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky [2]. (Even Hillary Clinton wrote about Alinsky in her thesis [3].) Only with the rise of the Internet could this stranglehold of power be challenged, was challenged, and Trump won. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ln5bhcWcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ln5bhcWcI [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_senior_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_senior_thesis

71 points by madao 10y ago

I personally attended an ultra conservative school of about 70 pupils all grades accounted for, based on the ACE system (see http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com http://leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com for a decent introduction), and while I thankfully managed to escape that scene many years ago (extremely lucky circumstances outside of my own doing), I'm afraid I clearly recognise the vision the author describes. I desperately hope that they are wrong, but I can imagine it being spot on all too well. :( FWIW I too don't have contact with my parents mostly as a result of this, and the level of mental gymnastics in otherwise intelligent and sincere folks is jarring.

ahoka 10y ago

The site sells pins with the label "misandrist". What's next? Swastikas? I thought hate speech is off limits on HN.

orf 10y ago
Any comments on the actual article, or just deflections?
- Inconel 10y ago
  I'm not the person you're responding to but I thought it was a good article. I've only known two people who were homeschooled, and one is an atheist while the other was Christian last time I checked, but not particularly religious, so it was interesting and disheartening to see what goes on in a fundamentalist Christian homeschooled environment. I didn't notice the misandrist pins for sale until it was pointed out but I can't say I like the idea of wearing pins that espouse disdain or prejudice against someone for their gender, or any other reason for that matter. Hopefully this doesn't count as deflection?
tomp 10y ago
I guess that's a feminist (probably "far-left feminist") virtue signal - similar to the "I bathe in male tears" tshirts that some self-proclaimed feminists proudly wear. (This of course doesn't make it any less despicable.)
awjr 10y ago
What was hateful about the article?

kartan 10y ago

High-quality free state-run secular schools is one of the most important social achievements. In that schools a new generation can grow and learn while minimizing radicalization. That new generation meets people from different cultures and religion since they are children and learn to accept the differences. This doesn't solves all problems, is not a silver bulled, but it improves society at large. I never understood why in the USA parents are allowed to radicalize their children out of society. Now I not just don't understand, but I see how dangerous is the situation.

gambiting 10y ago
I genuinely believe that home schooling shouldn't be allowed, except for kids with disabilities which stop them from leaving home. It just seems to me that Americans fear radical islam, while extremely radical Christianity grows right under their noses. I agree that free state-run secular schools are the way to go for modern society.
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  > I genuinely believe that home schooling shouldn't be allowed Maybe we should just give kids to bullies to use as slaves? Probably auction them. (School was unarguably the worst period of my life, period. Bonus points for being blamed for that even later on, when affluent and successful) (Nobody ever blames bullies for being ones. They were "just kids". Now you - you do get blamed for having been bullied)
  - gambiting 10y ago
    It's like saying that someone broke your arm at school,so maybe we should break arms of every kid at school. This would never happen with home schooling! My point is - these two are unrelated. I say home schooling shouldn't be allowed, you say you were bullied at school. So is your point that everyone should be home schooled? I mean....bullies are usually bullies because they have shit parents who don't care about their kids. Do you think that home schooling is the answer here?

probably_wrong 10y ago

So... are we going to see any kind of evidence for this? Who's the editor? Who fact-checked the story? Or is a first person story by a political activist on a political website what we call "news" now?

panic 10y ago
This isn't news, it's a personal story. You can flag it if it's not the kind of content you'd like to see.
noelwelsh 10y ago
Firstly, it's an opinion piece. It's not pretending to be news. Secondly, the article has plenty of links you can follow to get more information. You can follow them and make up your own mind. Or you could crash into this thread demanding cites, one of the classic moves of a troll.

qubyte 10y ago

I was raised and schooled as a Catholic in the UK, and while that's nowhere near as malign as the religious groups mentioned in this article, the final paragraph really resonated with me. It wasn't until university that anyone questioned my beliefs. I patiently heard each argument out and responded with logical gymnastics (I now classify myself as a theological noncognitivist). It was only when a difficult event happened in my life that I began to really question my beliefs and they crumbled (a traumatic experience in itself). The author is spot on when they say that there's nothing you can do to convince these people. The beliefs are so closely held that changing them has to come from the believer.

guard-of-terra 10y ago

I think that Abrahamic religions is perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to Homo Sapiens.

TurlochOTierney 10y ago

Just flagged this by mistake. Fat finger error.

angryredblock 10y ago

Complete misrepresentation of homeschooling based on one person's anecdotal experience. "A single powerful person who is convinced of their own Rightness with no thought of introspection is dangerous." Indeed. Perhaps we'd be better served to stop vilifying an entire subset of the population and actually listen to the parents who have recognized that public education is broken and who are taking other measures to educate their children.

jhanschoo 10y ago
It seemed pretty obvious to me that the author was referring to one particular version (christofascist) of homeschooling. For positive experiences with homeschooling, Astra Taylor's essays on it come to mind https://popularresistance.org/the-unschooled-life-astra-taylor-story/ https://popularresistance.org/the-unschooled-life-astra-tayl..., https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/essays/unschooling/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/essays/unschooling/. It seems to me however, from armchair reasoning, lacking any motivation to research this further, that the former version would dominate and be the more public version of homeschooling, given that it co-opts into a popular American agenda with a focused message and mission.

cconcepts 10y ago

Very well written. Although this article is quite emotive and could be considered an extreme point of view, I think it is important to read in order to understand the multitude of voices wanting to be heard in the current quagmire. I disagree with some of the assumptions made but nonetheless think this is a voice that should be heard. As a follower of Jesus (I have to be careful how I say Christian because of how loaded that term has become) I feel sad that the writer is marginalised as if it is something Christ would have done. That Jesus has been attached to a particular political agenda is particularly heartbreaking. Historically, when Christianity has gotten in bed with power it has been bad news for the essence of Christ and the humbling power of His work - I would argue this is because of the corruptibility of humans and not through something inherently wrong with Christianity. I'm sorry for some of the things being done in the name of Christianity but this is an intelligent, thoughtful community - please find out for yourself who Christ really said he was and don't assume that what some powerbrokers say in Christ's name is true - their interests are vested. I hope that HN continues its history of thoughtful, respectful discussion rather than the vitriol I am seeing elsewhere. EDIT: Spelling/grammar

bambax 10y ago
> this is an intelligent, thoughtful community I really, really don't think so. "Jesus" (who probably never even existed) isn't the problem, though. Religions are. That they should be "respected" as just a normal human behavior is the problem. That superstition should be considered seriously instead of being fought, esp. in young minds, is the problem. That separate schools should exist in the name of superstition, that people should be allowed to not even send their children to school but indoctrinate them themselves, is the problem. There is such a thing as too much freedom, and the result is catastrophic.
- m0nty 10y ago
  > I really, really don't think so Hacker News is, I think that was the intended meaning.
- choko 10y ago
  I'm agnostic and have no strong feelings on religion, and I find your comments very intolerant. Views like yours have no place in this community. It's not ok for you to tell people how they should live their lives.

bambax 10y ago

Why exactly is this flagged? Is it not "interesting"?

vedranm 10y ago

There is a number of usual Left wing talking points which advocate violating freedom of association and therefore don't fit the classical liberal or libertarian world view [1]. Two more grave errors: >They know Trump is easily manipulated and will change his mind with the wind if it makes him feel more powerful and famous. Trump couldn’t care less about policy, a fact he’s made quite obvious. This is a very strong claim to make about someone whose every move in the Office thus far has been promised and rehearsed during the campaign. >The revolution has come and we are the resistance. I find this claim funny given that the Left has overtook the universities, the media, and Hollywood, and did so quite often using the tactics outlined in Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky [2]. (Even Hillary Clinton wrote about Alinsky in her thesis [3].) Only with the rise of the Internet could this stranglehold of power be challenged, was challenged, and Trump won. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ln5bhcWcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ln5bhcWcI [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_senior_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_senior_thesis