4 ms·

> This policy is misguided and evil from the ground up. If this program had been in place twenty years the number of terrorist attacks it would have prevented i

> This policy is misguided and evil from the ground up. If this program had been in place twenty years the number of terrorist attacks it would have prevented is zero. So what did you say when Obama temporarily (6 months) banned refugees? http://www.wnd.com/2017/01/2011-obama-paused-iraq-refugee-program-for-6-months/ http://www.wnd.com/2017/01/2011-obama-paused-iraq-refugee-pr...

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
So I could be wrong but when I tried looking into it I found that: Obama's suspended the processing of refugee statuses with the United States for 6 months for people in Iraq. This had no affect on those with existing visas, green cards or approved refugee statuses. It's my understanding this process can take from 6 months to 2 years to complete. This means no one would be disrupted / detained during travel as they wouldn't have been approved to travel yet. Trump's executive order, however, applied to multiple countries and to people with green cards (initially) and visas. It was highly disruptive to those already in transit or were soon to be traveling. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I could tell they seem very different.
- leereeves 10y ago
  May I ask for your source regarding the application of this order to people with green cards? It's so hard to find the actual facts amid the rhetoric.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    I can't find the DHS release regarding it but multiple news outlets reported on it. Here's the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-u... From my understanding: DHS initially said this would affect green card holders. Then the administration said green card holders need a special waiver to get through. Then that specific decision was reversed and now all green card holders can get through. But of course if you find anything I said was incorrect please let me know :). I agree it's hard to find good sources with the media in a fury over this story.
  - ern 10y ago
    From Fox News: That covers legal permanent residents -- green card holders -- and visa-holders from those seven countries who are out of the United States after Friday, when President Donald Trump signed an executive order with the temporary ban. They cannot return to the U.S. for 90 days. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/29/federal-judge-grants-stay-to-allow-those-with-visas-to-remain.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/29/federal-judge-grants-st... Googling "Green cards visa blocked" gives plenty more results.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      Finding a source isn't the problem. The problem is finding the truth amid all the confusion and partisanship. > White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus: "We didn't overrule the Department of Homeland Security, as far as green card holders moving forward, it doesn't affect them" http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/priebus-immigration-order-doesn-t-include-green-card-holders-anyone-n713731 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/priebus-immigr... I'm wondering if this was a reversal or a misunderstanding.
      - ern 10y ago
        A reversal (Google for "trump reverse green card"): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-immigration-ban-reince-priebus-green-card-holders-visa-travel-warning-a7552041.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trum... In case you don't trust The Independent Here's a solidly right wing source to back it up: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444372/trumps-executive-order-covers-green-cards-why http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444372/trumps-executive...
        leereeves 10y ago
        Both of those sources are merely someone's opinion. The order was signed on Jan 27. On the morning of Jan 29, Priebus said that it did not affect green card holders. If that's a reversal, it was remarkably quick.
        10y ago
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
legodt 10y ago
It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Here are some key differences: 1. Trump has made islamaphobic rhetoric a cornerstone of his campaign, giving this racist undertones 2. That was a quiet secret at the time, this was an extremely public executive order. Both are wrong, but that doesn't somehow detract from or excuse this massive escalation. There wasn't this outrage at the time because nobody heard about it 3. The political situation at the time wasn't as life-or-death for refugees. Sending political refugees back now is a death sentence. That said, the US has been pretty terrible at accepting refugees in general this past decade, which is very shameful 4. This order detained cleared refugees while in transit, and, originally blocked green card holders from returning to the US after exiting for any reason 5. Remember that Trump has a neo-nazi in his cabinet with bannon, who reportedly wrote this order. That alone should be reason for heightened suspicion
- egopulsus 10y ago
  how is it wrong? is it wrong for a sovereign nation to take care of it's own national interests even if that offends some people? most of what is happening is media-driven hysteria with masses of people that haven't even read the words of the executive order. Do you have proof that Bannon is a neo-nazi? I've heard quite the opposite but it's a common leftist talking point so if that's where you got it I understand.
nl 10y ago
The UK Mirror (!!) dealt with that one: "Here's a list of the similarities - and a much longer list of differences between the controls Obama used in 2011 and Carter used in 1979." http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimmy-carter-9717520 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimm...

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

So I could be wrong but when I tried looking into it I found that: Obama's suspended the processing of refugee statuses with the United States for 6 months for people in Iraq. This had no affect on those with existing visas, green cards or approved refugee statuses. It's my understanding this process can take from 6 months to 2 years to complete. This means no one would be disrupted / detained during travel as they wouldn't have been approved to travel yet. Trump's executive order, however, applied to multiple countries and to people with green cards (initially) and visas. It was highly disruptive to those already in transit or were soon to be traveling. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I could tell they seem very different.

leereeves 10y ago
May I ask for your source regarding the application of this order to people with green cards? It's so hard to find the actual facts amid the rhetoric.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  I can't find the DHS release regarding it but multiple news outlets reported on it. Here's the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-u... From my understanding: DHS initially said this would affect green card holders. Then the administration said green card holders need a special waiver to get through. Then that specific decision was reversed and now all green card holders can get through. But of course if you find anything I said was incorrect please let me know :). I agree it's hard to find good sources with the media in a fury over this story.
- ern 10y ago
  From Fox News: That covers legal permanent residents -- green card holders -- and visa-holders from those seven countries who are out of the United States after Friday, when President Donald Trump signed an executive order with the temporary ban. They cannot return to the U.S. for 90 days. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/29/federal-judge-grants-stay-to-allow-those-with-visas-to-remain.html http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/29/federal-judge-grants-st... Googling "Green cards visa blocked" gives plenty more results.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Finding a source isn't the problem. The problem is finding the truth amid all the confusion and partisanship. > White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus: "We didn't overrule the Department of Homeland Security, as far as green card holders moving forward, it doesn't affect them" http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/priebus-immigration-order-doesn-t-include-green-card-holders-anyone-n713731 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/priebus-immigr... I'm wondering if this was a reversal or a misunderstanding.
    - ern 10y ago
      A reversal (Google for "trump reverse green card"): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-immigration-ban-reince-priebus-green-card-holders-visa-travel-warning-a7552041.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trum... In case you don't trust The Independent Here's a solidly right wing source to back it up: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444372/trumps-executive-order-covers-green-cards-why http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444372/trumps-executive...
      - leereeves 10y ago
        Both of those sources are merely someone's opinion. The order was signed on Jan 27. On the morning of Jan 29, Priebus said that it did not affect green card holders. If that's a reversal, it was remarkably quick.
        10y ago
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

legodt 10y ago

It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Here are some key differences: 1. Trump has made islamaphobic rhetoric a cornerstone of his campaign, giving this racist undertones 2. That was a quiet secret at the time, this was an extremely public executive order. Both are wrong, but that doesn't somehow detract from or excuse this massive escalation. There wasn't this outrage at the time because nobody heard about it 3. The political situation at the time wasn't as life-or-death for refugees. Sending political refugees back now is a death sentence. That said, the US has been pretty terrible at accepting refugees in general this past decade, which is very shameful 4. This order detained cleared refugees while in transit, and, originally blocked green card holders from returning to the US after exiting for any reason 5. Remember that Trump has a neo-nazi in his cabinet with bannon, who reportedly wrote this order. That alone should be reason for heightened suspicion

egopulsus 10y ago
how is it wrong? is it wrong for a sovereign nation to take care of it's own national interests even if that offends some people? most of what is happening is media-driven hysteria with masses of people that haven't even read the words of the executive order. Do you have proof that Bannon is a neo-nazi? I've heard quite the opposite but it's a common leftist talking point so if that's where you got it I understand.

nl 10y ago

The UK Mirror (!!) dealt with that one: "Here's a list of the similarities - and a much longer list of differences between the controls Obama used in 2011 and Carter used in 1979." http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimmy-carter-9717520 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimm...