3 ms·

Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? I don't see that either group is in a position to

by Hondor 10y ago

Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? I don't see that either group is in a position to demand what the other group learns or how they conduct their private activities. If you want to be part of their community then learn their language. If you prefer to isolate yourself with your fellow locals, then do that. Both ways are OK and you have nothing to complain about. The native Maoris were pressured into learning the immigrant's English language 100+ years ago. Perhaps you would be happier if that never happened? It's ironic that you're in Singapore, an openly multi-lingual country. Which groups are using the "wrong" language there?

philliphaydon 10y ago
If you go to any Asian or middle eastern country. You must follow their rules and their way of life. But the west is like. Oh no come into our country, do what ever you want, we have a fake freedom for you to enjoy.
- averagewall 10y ago
  Do you have specific examples? Besides laws, I can't think of any. What are the consequences for not following their way of life? Isolation from their social group? Hasn't that already happened to isolated Asians and Indians in New Zealand?
jimmywanger 10y ago
> Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? Why would locals have to learn the migrants' languages, unless they wanted to deal with them or there was money in it? When people move to a country, they can either assimilate into the country or try to take over the country. Since that's how most of the new world was settled, if you live here and want things to stay sort of the way they are, you want immigrants to assimilate and learn your language. If they don't want to learn your language, immigrants should go places where the language they speak is used.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Hondor 10y ago
  Locals don't have to learn immigrants' languages. They also don't have to integrate with them. But they can. If you value integrating and sharing a language, then you personally should go to the trouble of doing that, not complain that somebody else isn't doing what you want. Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth. If you want a stagnant place, you should find one which has such restrictions written into its laws or bylaws so you can have more confidence that it'll stay how it is. What else don't you want to change? Young people looking at their smartphones all day instead of having conversations with you? No new slang words? Where are the boundaries of what you expect other people are obliged to do for the benefit of your feeling of familiarity?
  - flukus 10y ago
    > Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth If you rely on immigration for economic growth then you aren't really getting economic growth.
  - gspetr 10y ago
    > Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth. Legal immigration is virtually non-existent in China. There goes goes your stagnation theory.
    - Hondor 10y ago
      My comment was about things staying the way they were, not only immigration. China is unrecognizably different now because of growth. What if you didn't like high rise apartments spoiling your ocean view? Sorry, it's changed. What if you didn't like having no young people working on your farm and looking after you when you're old? Sorry, it's changed. What if you didn't like not knowing your neighbors because there are too many of them? Oh, and people in cities have even largely changed their dialect to be able to communicate with Chinese from other areas. Somebody who prefers to keep their same way of life wouldn't get on well there.
dzhiurgis 10y ago
> Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? Good point. In my 2 years in NZ, no one invited me to a BBQ, because I am eastern European. I mostly hang out with asian colleagues. At work though it's kind of cool to have such a multicultural teams (unless you are manager - those positions are still mostly kiwi (I guess more of an age thing, than nepotism)). I guess it's what USA was a century ago.

by Hondor 10y ago

philliphaydon 10y ago

If you go to any Asian or middle eastern country. You must follow their rules and their way of life. But the west is like. Oh no come into our country, do what ever you want, we have a fake freedom for you to enjoy.

averagewall 10y ago
Do you have specific examples? Besides laws, I can't think of any. What are the consequences for not following their way of life? Isolation from their social group? Hasn't that already happened to isolated Asians and Indians in New Zealand?

jimmywanger 10y ago

> Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? Why would locals have to learn the migrants' languages, unless they wanted to deal with them or there was money in it? When people move to a country, they can either assimilate into the country or try to take over the country. Since that's how most of the new world was settled, if you live here and want things to stay sort of the way they are, you want immigrants to assimilate and learn your language. If they don't want to learn your language, immigrants should go places where the language they speak is used.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Hondor 10y ago
Locals don't have to learn immigrants' languages. They also don't have to integrate with them. But they can. If you value integrating and sharing a language, then you personally should go to the trouble of doing that, not complain that somebody else isn't doing what you want. Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth. If you want a stagnant place, you should find one which has such restrictions written into its laws or bylaws so you can have more confidence that it'll stay how it is. What else don't you want to change? Young people looking at their smartphones all day instead of having conversations with you? No new slang words? Where are the boundaries of what you expect other people are obliged to do for the benefit of your feeling of familiarity?
- flukus 10y ago
  > Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth If you rely on immigration for economic growth then you aren't really getting economic growth.
- gspetr 10y ago
  > Expecting things to stay the way they are isn't compatible with economic growth. Legal immigration is virtually non-existent in China. There goes goes your stagnation theory.
  - Hondor 10y ago
    My comment was about things staying the way they were, not only immigration. China is unrecognizably different now because of growth. What if you didn't like high rise apartments spoiling your ocean view? Sorry, it's changed. What if you didn't like having no young people working on your farm and looking after you when you're old? Sorry, it's changed. What if you didn't like not knowing your neighbors because there are too many of them? Oh, and people in cities have even largely changed their dialect to be able to communicate with Chinese from other areas. Somebody who prefers to keep their same way of life wouldn't get on well there.

dzhiurgis 10y ago

> Is it migrants that refuse to learn the local language, or locals who refuse to learn the migrants' languages? Good point. In my 2 years in NZ, no one invited me to a BBQ, because I am eastern European. I mostly hang out with asian colleagues. At work though it's kind of cool to have such a multicultural teams (unless you are manager - those positions are still mostly kiwi (I guess more of an age thing, than nepotism)). I guess it's what USA was a century ago.