10 ms·

Just the first ripples against the shore of what I expect to be a tsunami of unexpected consequences. Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to st

Just the first ripples against the shore of what I expect to be a tsunami of unexpected consequences. Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico.

petercooper 10y ago
A few years ago I raised the idea (on Twitter) of Iceland being a nice "neutral" venue that's equally (in)convenient for both US and European attendees, very liberal and progressive, and, at the time, cheap for a Nordic country. I have since seen a handful of industry conferences take place there, but it hasn't really blown up (one reason, I suspect, is it's reasonably expensive to stay there now - Iceland's decline did not last long!)
- xiaoma 10y ago
  The next most important start-up hub after SF is Beijing. It's much more affordable than SF, but there are other concerns with hosting conferences there such as pollution, speech and media controls and a lot of regulation in general. edit: I had no idea there was so much China hate here. I'm no fan of certain policies of the government, believe me. I hate the GFW with a passion. But the entrepreneurial community is incredible. There's a lot of skill at the high end and awe-inspiring levels of fearlessness and ambition.
  - logical42 10y ago
    ..like being able to use unfiltered internet?
  - sharemywin 10y ago
    pollution?
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Like the 20+ hours of travel to get there?
    - rahimnathwani 10y ago
      From where does it take 20 hours to get to Beijing? SFO to Beijing is just over half that.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        You're already on the Pacific coast. Not everyone on the planet is. Under optimal circumstances, not including airport time which can be considerable, flight time between New York and Shanghai is 15 hours. Add in a few hours to check-in, clear customs, plus other nonsense and you're up to 18. Under ideal circumstances.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        A lot more people on the planet live near Beijing than near Iceland.
        astrodust 10y ago
        If you're talking about India and China, sure. If you're talking about America and Europe? Nope.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        Yes, India and China are indisputable giants but also consider Japan (still the #2 or #3 economy in the world depending on the metric), Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore—all advanced economies with extremely educated and technical populaces. Then there's Vietnam, which is very poor but growing over 10% / year and highly educated despite the poverty. There are also hundreds of millions of people in Indonesia and Malaysia. I was speaking not of the US or Europe but the world in general. We don't live in the Eurocentric world of 150 years ago. The center of gravity now spans the Pacific.
  - stuckagain 10y ago
    In what way is Beijing a legitimate counterpoint to an American lurch toward despotism?
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    Sorry, mods can be real asshats on here.
    - grzm 10y ago
      That only mods are 'dang and 'sctb. Are you referring to them? Or do you mean members who are downvoting? If the latter, please don't refer to them as mods. And regardless, kindly don't resort to name calling.
  - nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
    That would be great for conferences if it wasn't for everything you mentioned plus high levels of govt corruption and IP theft. The lack of open Internet alone is enough that the vast majority of conferences simply cannot be held there. It's not "China hate" when there's legitimate reasons.
  - hueving 10y ago
    I've been to a conference in mainland China. The firewall made it completely miserable (it was a tech conference). People from the west expect to be able to use Google/gmail/hangouts/github/ssh for more than 5 minute random bursts of connectivity. You can't expect people to go to tech conferences in those garbage conditions.
    - patrickk 10y ago
      DevCon2? Lots of people on /r/ethereum were upset that videos of the talks were not available for weeks afterwards because it was in Shanghai.
      - hueving 10y ago
        No, it was for developing infrastructure tooling (e.g. K8s, docker, etc), all of which was mainly hosted on github. Sounds like it's not an uncommon problem. Frankly I think the conferences are only as successful as they are because of the volume of mainland Chinese citizens and the novelty of a trip to mainland China for people outside of the country.
- labster 10y ago
  While the idea of Iceland is great, being in the middle of the Atlantic. But this means that it's close to no one, including likely conference organizers.
  - danaliv 10y ago
    Iceland is only a four-hour flight from Boston or Berlin. It's really quite a convenient location.
- widforss 10y ago
  While it is a great location, Iceland is not "cheap for a Nordic country" anymore. They picked up, and isolation does not come for free.
- deong 10y ago
  I've actually organized a machine learning conference in Iceland (AISTATS and MLSS 2014), and I can probably shed some light on this. One, it's hideously expensive now, for almost anyone in the world. Second, it's incredibly small -- 320,000 people in the entire country, and maybe 220,000 of those in the Reykjavik area. Due to the "big fish in a small pond" aspect of Reykjavik being the capital, there's more infrastructure than you'd expect from a city of 200,000 people, but not that much more. NIPS draws something like 3500 attendees now. I'm not sure there are 3500 hotel rooms in the country of Iceland. I struggled to find a venue that could host 10% of that for AISTATS. AISTATS is single-track which requires one big room, but there would have been very few options for finding a room big enough for just the deep learning breakaways at NIPS. Aside from that, it's great. We did draw more people from the US than typical AISTATS European years had done, and it's a beautiful country for visitors to enjoy. But I don't think it's capable of becoming a major world conference center at the moment.
  - petercooper 10y ago
    Fantastic response and insights. Thanks!
astrodust 10y ago
It better fucking not be Dubai.
cperciva 10y ago
Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico. Can I suggest Canada for this purpose? We're a cheaper conference destination than the USA, Europe, or Japan; have a fluently English-speaking population anywhere conferences would be held (most people in Montreal are bilingual); have good infrastructure; and most international visitors to the USA already fly over Canada anyway. This would be unfortunate for conference attendees from Central and South America, but they're far outnumbered by the conference attendees from Europe and Asia.
- wattt 10y ago
  Why do you think Canada wouldn't be as good for Central or South Americans? There are flights to Central and South America from almost everywhere in Canada. I speak Spanish in Canada often.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    Two reasons. First, flying to Canada is simply a longer flight. Second, the USA has some rules concerning passengers on flights in US airspace; it's possible that people who couldn't attend a conference in the USA wouldn't be allowed to fly over the USA either.
    - psybin 10y ago
      They mostly seem to have issues with flights that transit through the US, which you can avoid.
      - danudey 10y ago
        But the TSA requires airlines to list all passengers on flights travelling over US airspace, and can instruct an airline not to allow specific passengers onto that flight (or, presumably, not allow that airline to fly over its airspace).
mirimir 10y ago
Spain makes the most sense. Geographically, more or less. And economically too, I think.
- toomanybeersies 10y ago
  Unfortunately for me, being in New Zealand, Spain is literally as far away as you can get.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    Sorry, I was thinking global weighted average.
- atomwaffel 10y ago
  I was thinking of Spain too. I went to a conference in Madrid last year and was pleasantly surprised by how many people there were from Spanish-speaking Latin America, far more than I usually see at conferences. At the same time, it's easy enough to get to for most of Europe and not too far from North America either. Then again, I'm sure it's a nightmare for people from Oceania. Our planet is really inconvenient in that regard, what with being round and all…
- corford 10y ago
  Agree. Barcelona has huge hotel and conference infrastructure (plus easy to fly to directly from most places or connect via Madrid).
thisrod 10y ago
No one has mentioned Singapore yet. It's easier for most people to get there than to Australasia. And, in the scheme of hereditary fascist dictators, the Lees are comparatively sane ;-)

petercooper 10y ago

A few years ago I raised the idea (on Twitter) of Iceland being a nice "neutral" venue that's equally (in)convenient for both US and European attendees, very liberal and progressive, and, at the time, cheap for a Nordic country. I have since seen a handful of industry conferences take place there, but it hasn't really blown up (one reason, I suspect, is it's reasonably expensive to stay there now - Iceland's decline did not last long!)

xiaoma 10y ago
The next most important start-up hub after SF is Beijing. It's much more affordable than SF, but there are other concerns with hosting conferences there such as pollution, speech and media controls and a lot of regulation in general. edit: I had no idea there was so much China hate here. I'm no fan of certain policies of the government, believe me. I hate the GFW with a passion. But the entrepreneurial community is incredible. There's a lot of skill at the high end and awe-inspiring levels of fearlessness and ambition.
- logical42 10y ago
  ..like being able to use unfiltered internet?
- sharemywin 10y ago
  pollution?
- astrodust 10y ago
  Like the 20+ hours of travel to get there?
  - rahimnathwani 10y ago
    From where does it take 20 hours to get to Beijing? SFO to Beijing is just over half that.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      You're already on the Pacific coast. Not everyone on the planet is. Under optimal circumstances, not including airport time which can be considerable, flight time between New York and Shanghai is 15 hours. Add in a few hours to check-in, clear customs, plus other nonsense and you're up to 18. Under ideal circumstances.
      - xiaoma 10y ago
        A lot more people on the planet live near Beijing than near Iceland.
        astrodust 10y ago
        If you're talking about India and China, sure. If you're talking about America and Europe? Nope.
        xiaoma 10y ago
        Yes, India and China are indisputable giants but also consider Japan (still the #2 or #3 economy in the world depending on the metric), Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore—all advanced economies with extremely educated and technical populaces. Then there's Vietnam, which is very poor but growing over 10% / year and highly educated despite the poverty. There are also hundreds of millions of people in Indonesia and Malaysia. I was speaking not of the US or Europe but the world in general. We don't live in the Eurocentric world of 150 years ago. The center of gravity now spans the Pacific.
- stuckagain 10y ago
  In what way is Beijing a legitimate counterpoint to an American lurch toward despotism?
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  Sorry, mods can be real asshats on here.
  - grzm 10y ago
    That only mods are 'dang and 'sctb. Are you referring to them? Or do you mean members who are downvoting? If the latter, please don't refer to them as mods. And regardless, kindly don't resort to name calling.
- nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
  That would be great for conferences if it wasn't for everything you mentioned plus high levels of govt corruption and IP theft. The lack of open Internet alone is enough that the vast majority of conferences simply cannot be held there. It's not "China hate" when there's legitimate reasons.
- hueving 10y ago
  I've been to a conference in mainland China. The firewall made it completely miserable (it was a tech conference). People from the west expect to be able to use Google/gmail/hangouts/github/ssh for more than 5 minute random bursts of connectivity. You can't expect people to go to tech conferences in those garbage conditions.
  - patrickk 10y ago
    DevCon2? Lots of people on /r/ethereum were upset that videos of the talks were not available for weeks afterwards because it was in Shanghai.
    - hueving 10y ago
      No, it was for developing infrastructure tooling (e.g. K8s, docker, etc), all of which was mainly hosted on github. Sounds like it's not an uncommon problem. Frankly I think the conferences are only as successful as they are because of the volume of mainland Chinese citizens and the novelty of a trip to mainland China for people outside of the country.
labster 10y ago
While the idea of Iceland is great, being in the middle of the Atlantic. But this means that it's close to no one, including likely conference organizers.
- danaliv 10y ago
  Iceland is only a four-hour flight from Boston or Berlin. It's really quite a convenient location.
widforss 10y ago
While it is a great location, Iceland is not "cheap for a Nordic country" anymore. They picked up, and isolation does not come for free.
deong 10y ago
I've actually organized a machine learning conference in Iceland (AISTATS and MLSS 2014), and I can probably shed some light on this. One, it's hideously expensive now, for almost anyone in the world. Second, it's incredibly small -- 320,000 people in the entire country, and maybe 220,000 of those in the Reykjavik area. Due to the "big fish in a small pond" aspect of Reykjavik being the capital, there's more infrastructure than you'd expect from a city of 200,000 people, but not that much more. NIPS draws something like 3500 attendees now. I'm not sure there are 3500 hotel rooms in the country of Iceland. I struggled to find a venue that could host 10% of that for AISTATS. AISTATS is single-track which requires one big room, but there would have been very few options for finding a room big enough for just the deep learning breakaways at NIPS. Aside from that, it's great. We did draw more people from the US than typical AISTATS European years had done, and it's a beautiful country for visitors to enjoy. But I don't think it's capable of becoming a major world conference center at the moment.
- petercooper 10y ago
  Fantastic response and insights. Thanks!

astrodust 10y ago

It better fucking not be Dubai.

cperciva 10y ago

Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico. Can I suggest Canada for this purpose? We're a cheaper conference destination than the USA, Europe, or Japan; have a fluently English-speaking population anywhere conferences would be held (most people in Montreal are bilingual); have good infrastructure; and most international visitors to the USA already fly over Canada anyway. This would be unfortunate for conference attendees from Central and South America, but they're far outnumbered by the conference attendees from Europe and Asia.

wattt 10y ago
Why do you think Canada wouldn't be as good for Central or South Americans? There are flights to Central and South America from almost everywhere in Canada. I speak Spanish in Canada often.
- cperciva 10y ago
  Two reasons. First, flying to Canada is simply a longer flight. Second, the USA has some rules concerning passengers on flights in US airspace; it's possible that people who couldn't attend a conference in the USA wouldn't be allowed to fly over the USA either.
  - psybin 10y ago
    They mostly seem to have issues with flights that transit through the US, which you can avoid.
    - danudey 10y ago
      But the TSA requires airlines to list all passengers on flights travelling over US airspace, and can instruct an airline not to allow specific passengers onto that flight (or, presumably, not allow that airline to fly over its airspace).

mirimir 10y ago

Spain makes the most sense. Geographically, more or less. And economically too, I think.

toomanybeersies 10y ago
Unfortunately for me, being in New Zealand, Spain is literally as far away as you can get.
- mirimir 10y ago
  Sorry, I was thinking global weighted average.
atomwaffel 10y ago
I was thinking of Spain too. I went to a conference in Madrid last year and was pleasantly surprised by how many people there were from Spanish-speaking Latin America, far more than I usually see at conferences. At the same time, it's easy enough to get to for most of Europe and not too far from North America either. Then again, I'm sure it's a nightmare for people from Oceania. Our planet is really inconvenient in that regard, what with being round and all…
corford 10y ago
Agree. Barcelona has huge hotel and conference infrastructure (plus easy to fly to directly from most places or connect via Madrid).

thisrod 10y ago

No one has mentioned Singapore yet. It's easier for most people to get there than to Australasia. And, in the scheme of hereditary fascist dictators, the Lees are comparatively sane ;-)