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Upvoted for hilarity factor. But from a logical standpoint this is really a bad argument. Writing often has a destructive purpose; what the person has "created"

by mburney 16y ago

Upvoted for hilarity factor. But from a logical standpoint this is really a bad argument. Writing often has a destructive purpose; what the person has "created" has very little to do with whether his criticism is valid or not.

_delirium 16y ago
Yeah, it's also a pretty weird attitude. Certainly not one that scientifically or engineering-minded people should have. If someone alleges that your physics experiment has a problem, the proper answer isn't: "Oh yeah? Well I've got tenure and recently won a major award in my field. What kind of physics discoveries have you made lately?" Scientists actually lose a lot of reputation if they start getting that sort of attitude--- it's been the sad fate of some late-career scientists.
- andreyf 16y ago
  But unlike a physics experiment, the decisions about open or closed platforms are moral. It's the equivalent of criticizing Gandhi for some minor detail of his fasting, to which he says "no, this is how I will fast, because this is my fasting and my movement". "Oh, and when have you ever started a movement? Or do you just criticize others?"
  - jpark 16y ago
    hmm...ok, so a political dissident can't criticize a brutal dicatorship because he's never created a brutal dictatorship before?
  - jpark 16y ago
    Btw, it's this type of close-mindedness and insularity that leads to tremendous abuses in society. Witness the Catholic abuse scandals. Can one criticize the Church without being a member or part of its leadership structure or even without believing in God? I hope so.
    - andreyf 16y ago
      Did you seriously just equate curating the App Store with raping children? And get 5 points for it?
- isleyaardvark 16y ago
  I don't think Jobs was talking about engineering there, he was talking about business decisions. Look at these quotes from the last set of exchanges: You have the chance to set the tone for a new platform. For the new phone and tablet platform. The platform of the future! I am disappointed to see it’s the same old revenge power bullshit. By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations? (Emphasis added) Jobs mentions several times it's a business decision for the platform made to create a good customer experience. Incidentally, I wouldn't be bothered by a scientist who had that attitude, if he was given vague criticism by someone without a physics background.
acqq 16y ago
It's just not optimally written, the major question should be: Which application do you want to write that oh so really demands Flash and would give users better experience than going native? I don't believe such an application exists!
delackner 16y ago
The original quote is simply a defensive version of _why's much HN-loved quote: "When you don’t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. Your tastes only narrow and exclude people. so create." Jobs is a human being. How would you like it if you poured yourself into creating the best platform experience that you think is possible, and you find all around you critics that sound to you as if they are saying "fuck you for only making me a chocolate cake, bake me one with strawberries on top!"

by mburney 16y ago

_delirium 16y ago

Yeah, it's also a pretty weird attitude. Certainly not one that scientifically or engineering-minded people should have. If someone alleges that your physics experiment has a problem, the proper answer isn't: "Oh yeah? Well I've got tenure and recently won a major award in my field. What kind of physics discoveries have you made lately?" Scientists actually lose a lot of reputation if they start getting that sort of attitude--- it's been the sad fate of some late-career scientists.

andreyf 16y ago
But unlike a physics experiment, the decisions about open or closed platforms are moral. It's the equivalent of criticizing Gandhi for some minor detail of his fasting, to which he says "no, this is how I will fast, because this is my fasting and my movement". "Oh, and when have you ever started a movement? Or do you just criticize others?"
- jpark 16y ago
  hmm...ok, so a political dissident can't criticize a brutal dicatorship because he's never created a brutal dictatorship before?
- jpark 16y ago
  Btw, it's this type of close-mindedness and insularity that leads to tremendous abuses in society. Witness the Catholic abuse scandals. Can one criticize the Church without being a member or part of its leadership structure or even without believing in God? I hope so.
  - andreyf 16y ago
    Did you seriously just equate curating the App Store with raping children? And get 5 points for it?
isleyaardvark 16y ago
I don't think Jobs was talking about engineering there, he was talking about business decisions. Look at these quotes from the last set of exchanges: You have the chance to set the tone for a new platform. For the new phone and tablet platform. The platform of the future! I am disappointed to see it’s the same old revenge power bullshit. By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations? (Emphasis added) Jobs mentions several times it's a business decision for the platform made to create a good customer experience. Incidentally, I wouldn't be bothered by a scientist who had that attitude, if he was given vague criticism by someone without a physics background.

acqq 16y ago

It's just not optimally written, the major question should be: Which application do you want to write that oh so really demands Flash and would give users better experience than going native? I don't believe such an application exists!

delackner 16y ago

The original quote is simply a defensive version of _why's much HN-loved quote: "When you don’t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. Your tastes only narrow and exclude people. so create." Jobs is a human being. How would you like it if you poured yourself into creating the best platform experience that you think is possible, and you find all around you critics that sound to you as if they are saying "fuck you for only making me a chocolate cake, bake me one with strawberries on top!"