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I understand you're view point but what is their to listen to? There are people that support republicans against their own interests, they are also amenable xen

I understand you're view point but what is their to listen to? There are people that support republicans against their own interests, they are also amenable xenophobic rhetoric. They largely cling to a fantasy of America that was only close to being "reality" about a decade before 1960. They are skeptical if the rest if the world and think somehow we wil revert this country back to an early twentieth century industrial revolution ... Ok, but that is all nonsense. I know that's not nice to say but that's how it is, so what are we listening to? If it's about strengthening social safety nets, better education, fights for "living wage," well, um that's not Paul Ryan or Donald Trump.

scrollaway 10y ago
It's a little foolish to think that over half the country is as xenophobic as the bottom tier of the trump demographic. I'm not telling you to listen to the xenophobic demographic, but to listen to those who are willing to disregard their moral limits in order not to vote for the other side. Trump has gotten votes from wildly diverse demographics. He's hijacked two parties he doesn't belong to just to win the election and he did win the election. Think of analyzing this as a post-mortem: What went wrong, why did people vote for somebody like this, etc. Anyway, what I was trying to communicate (and seem to have failed to) in my earlier comment was that like in any post-mortem it's pointless to try and point fingers and assign blame. What good is "holding people accountable" going to do, other than strenghten the divide?
tropo 10y ago
I see this "support republicans against their own interests" line so often around here. This ignores feelings of integrity, pride, shame, sin, ethics, morality, and self-worth. One's self interests include feeling that one is respectable and just. People might accept welfare, but that doesn't mean they feel OK about it. Many people, conservatives especially, want jobs. People want to feel that they support a family, without help. Poor conservatives don't seek to tax the rich because that would feel unethical. So yes, life is tough for these people, but they really don't want to feel that it is also unfair. They don't want to cheat, they don't want others to cheat, and they don't want the government helping anybody to cheat. An equal chance is demanded, but an equal outcome is at best a nice-to-have. (possibly undesirable because the non-lazy should be rewarded) There is no lack of understanding here. It's a different value system.

scrollaway 10y ago

It's a little foolish to think that over half the country is as xenophobic as the bottom tier of the trump demographic. I'm not telling you to listen to the xenophobic demographic, but to listen to those who are willing to disregard their moral limits in order not to vote for the other side. Trump has gotten votes from wildly diverse demographics. He's hijacked two parties he doesn't belong to just to win the election and he did win the election. Think of analyzing this as a post-mortem: What went wrong, why did people vote for somebody like this, etc. Anyway, what I was trying to communicate (and seem to have failed to) in my earlier comment was that like in any post-mortem it's pointless to try and point fingers and assign blame. What good is "holding people accountable" going to do, other than strenghten the divide?

tropo 10y ago

I see this "support republicans against their own interests" line so often around here. This ignores feelings of integrity, pride, shame, sin, ethics, morality, and self-worth. One's self interests include feeling that one is respectable and just. People might accept welfare, but that doesn't mean they feel OK about it. Many people, conservatives especially, want jobs. People want to feel that they support a family, without help. Poor conservatives don't seek to tax the rich because that would feel unethical. So yes, life is tough for these people, but they really don't want to feel that it is also unfair. They don't want to cheat, they don't want others to cheat, and they don't want the government helping anybody to cheat. An equal chance is demanded, but an equal outcome is at best a nice-to-have. (possibly undesirable because the non-lazy should be rewarded) There is no lack of understanding here. It's a different value system.