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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I understand a lot of the politics regarding the issue, and am specifically trying to avoid bringing that into this part

by grzm 10y ago

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I understand a lot of the politics regarding the issue, and am specifically trying to avoid bringing that into this particular slice. I'm not arguing whether or not the ban is targeting Muslims. The recent Fox News interview leaves little room for doubt. The question 'euyyn had was "How is this ban not racist?" You bring up racism and religious discrimination. Do you draw a distinction between the two? I've started to suspect that the definition of racism is currently widening to encapsulate more than strictly racial prejudice. Your comment "Technicalities be damned." leads me to believe that your understanding of the term racism is this wider one. Personally I think racism is the wrong term; religious discrimination seems more apt. But I also understand language changes. I sincerely am not in any way trying to parse a way out of what the Executive Order represents or its intent. I just want to understand what people mean when they call it "racist".

euyyn 10y ago
Yeah, if religious discrimination had an adjective form, like racist or bigotted, I would have used that. But as the three (and others like xenophobic) have the same cause and characteristics, the specific term to use seems to be a distinction without a difference.
- grzm 10y ago
  Thanks! I was beginning to fear I was going to be left hanging, as this is something on which I really wanted to get feedback. I understand where you're coming from with respect to the distinction without a difference. I fear it's likely adding to miscommunication, as I don't think that's yet a widely-held understanding of the term, or at least held across some political divides. That's not to say I have any great suggestions as to how to reconcile this. But I have seen a lot of likely unnecessary noise—at least here on HN—due to just this usage of racism around the topic of the Executive Order. There's enough other, meatier issues to discuss. It's too bad that this word is probably causing unnecessary friction. Thanks again! I appreciate it.
mistermann 10y ago
I strongly believe that if people would be intellectually honest, they would admit that when they say racist, what they actually mean is culturalist. But they very much don't want to go down that path, because then they'd have to come up with some argument that there is no such thing as culture. Obviously, there is such a thing as culture, but this in no way means that it's impossible for different cultures to peacefully coexist in the same country, neighborhood, etc.
- wang_li 10y ago
  >But they very much don't want to go down that path, because then they'd have to come up with some argument that there is no such thing as culture. And that holding an opinion that a particular culture is worse is wrong.

by grzm 10y ago

euyyn 10y ago

Yeah, if religious discrimination had an adjective form, like racist or bigotted, I would have used that. But as the three (and others like xenophobic) have the same cause and characteristics, the specific term to use seems to be a distinction without a difference.

grzm 10y ago
Thanks! I was beginning to fear I was going to be left hanging, as this is something on which I really wanted to get feedback. I understand where you're coming from with respect to the distinction without a difference. I fear it's likely adding to miscommunication, as I don't think that's yet a widely-held understanding of the term, or at least held across some political divides. That's not to say I have any great suggestions as to how to reconcile this. But I have seen a lot of likely unnecessary noise—at least here on HN—due to just this usage of racism around the topic of the Executive Order. There's enough other, meatier issues to discuss. It's too bad that this word is probably causing unnecessary friction. Thanks again! I appreciate it.

mistermann 10y ago

I strongly believe that if people would be intellectually honest, they would admit that when they say racist, what they actually mean is culturalist. But they very much don't want to go down that path, because then they'd have to come up with some argument that there is no such thing as culture. Obviously, there is such a thing as culture, but this in no way means that it's impossible for different cultures to peacefully coexist in the same country, neighborhood, etc.

wang_li 10y ago
>But they very much don't want to go down that path, because then they'd have to come up with some argument that there is no such thing as culture. And that holding an opinion that a particular culture is worse is wrong.