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> This is a deeply stupid comment. The only opposition yesterday worth anything was the ACLU lawsuit, and it was the only thing that actually made any concrete

> This is a deeply stupid comment. The only opposition yesterday worth anything was the ACLU lawsuit, and it was the only thing that actually made any concrete difference in the lives of the people affected. The rest was just people engaging in fantasy politics in the streets, who got what they wanted by appearing to care in front of their peers—without actually changing, literally, anything at all but their own perception of themselves. Everything beyond the ACLU lawsuit was either pointless virtue signaling or flat out lies (c.f. #MuslimBan hashtag). But sure, carry on protesting and virtue signaling, we all enjoy Trump running roughshod over the US while idiots live out their fantasy of political action and #Resistance on HN and Twitter.

mikeash 10y ago
So, when we complain about stuff on the internet, it's pointless virtue signaling. When you complain about stuff on the internet, it's.... what? Are you just virtue signaling to your group, here?
- erichocean 10y ago
  I'm talking to people, like yourself, who are normaly sober and rational on HN (and presumably, other places—I like your Objective-C articles, for instance). It's weird, Trump really has a lot of people "off their game" as it were, and it saddens me because the guy's kind of an idiot. I'd like to see people I respect get their shit together and mount and effective opposition. Short of talking to them (like I'm doing here), I'm not really sure what else you would expect me to do given my goals. I am personally not politically active, I don't blog, tweet, or any of that stuff. I rarely even comment on HN. So yeah: I just want to see the middle/left mount effective opposition. If you don't value my comments, ignore them. :)
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Could you explain how I'm not being sober and rational here, preferably without using the word "lie" (I'm not intending to deceive, so I am at worst mistaken) or the phrase "virtue signaling" (which is basically a slightly more polite way to say "fuck you" and is not productive)? What else would I expect you to do? I'd expect you to stop complaining about imaginary slights and insulting people for talking about things that they dislike. What do you think I should do? You haven't given me any suggestions, just virtually shouted at me for being such a lying asshole. So I should... what? You said the ACLU mounted the only effective opposition, maybe I should donate to them? Well, I did already. Hmm, if I were virtue signaling, wouldn't I put that front and center on everything I write? Hey everybody, look at how virtuous I am, I donated to the ACLU!
    - erichocean 10y ago
      Sorry, my timeout kicked in and I couldn't reply quickly. I apologize if my comments seem overly directed at you personally; that was not my intent and I should have made a top-level comment. You're a good guy and perhaps I've misunderstood how effective your approach will be over time. Best, Erich
justin66 10y ago
I was in an airport yesterday on business and encountered protesters who had organized via the internet and came out during a snowstorm. I don't know if that's what you meant by "hashtag protests," but the protests made the national news, and if enough people protest, maybe it moves the needle a little bit. It is certainly a heck of a lot more effective than making pointlessly cynical comments like yours from behind a computer monitor.

mikeash 10y ago

So, when we complain about stuff on the internet, it's pointless virtue signaling. When you complain about stuff on the internet, it's.... what? Are you just virtue signaling to your group, here?

erichocean 10y ago
I'm talking to people, like yourself, who are normaly sober and rational on HN (and presumably, other places—I like your Objective-C articles, for instance). It's weird, Trump really has a lot of people "off their game" as it were, and it saddens me because the guy's kind of an idiot. I'd like to see people I respect get their shit together and mount and effective opposition. Short of talking to them (like I'm doing here), I'm not really sure what else you would expect me to do given my goals. I am personally not politically active, I don't blog, tweet, or any of that stuff. I rarely even comment on HN. So yeah: I just want to see the middle/left mount effective opposition. If you don't value my comments, ignore them. :)
- mikeash 10y ago
  Could you explain how I'm not being sober and rational here, preferably without using the word "lie" (I'm not intending to deceive, so I am at worst mistaken) or the phrase "virtue signaling" (which is basically a slightly more polite way to say "fuck you" and is not productive)? What else would I expect you to do? I'd expect you to stop complaining about imaginary slights and insulting people for talking about things that they dislike. What do you think I should do? You haven't given me any suggestions, just virtually shouted at me for being such a lying asshole. So I should... what? You said the ACLU mounted the only effective opposition, maybe I should donate to them? Well, I did already. Hmm, if I were virtue signaling, wouldn't I put that front and center on everything I write? Hey everybody, look at how virtuous I am, I donated to the ACLU!
  - erichocean 10y ago
    Sorry, my timeout kicked in and I couldn't reply quickly. I apologize if my comments seem overly directed at you personally; that was not my intent and I should have made a top-level comment. You're a good guy and perhaps I've misunderstood how effective your approach will be over time. Best, Erich

justin66 10y ago

I was in an airport yesterday on business and encountered protesters who had organized via the internet and came out during a snowstorm. I don't know if that's what you meant by "hashtag protests," but the protests made the national news, and if enough people protest, maybe it moves the needle a little bit. It is certainly a heck of a lot more effective than making pointlessly cynical comments like yours from behind a computer monitor.