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> I really like it when my income is tied directly to my actions and effectiveness. The problem is, people like that go start businesses. That's exactly the pr

by kabuks 16y ago

> I really like it when my income is tied directly to my actions and effectiveness. The problem is, people like that go start businesses. That's exactly the problem! For me personally, I only want to work with people who want their compensation directly tied to their actions (contribution). One way to look at what we're trying to build, is a governance system that would allow multiple entrepreneurs to work together. To create another choice besides wage slave/free lancer/founder

lsc 16y ago
>For me personally, I only want to work with people who want their compensation directly tied to their actions (contribution) Really? Why? The thing is, Engineers who are also entrepreneurial types are /much/ more expensive than engineers of equivalent skill who are not entrepreneurial. I'm not saying what you are trying to do is useless; I think it's very interesting, and I'd like to see how it plays out. But I am saying that there are problems with limiting yourself to only hiring entrepreneurial types.
- _delirium 16y ago
  Anecdotally, non-entrepreneurial engineers are also more likely to stick around long-term, if your workplace is enjoyable and the pay/benefits are good. It's hard to keep an entrepreneurial type around too long unless your company is the kind that's always launching new products or projects. If you want someone to build and maintain a system with a 10-year horizon, it's probably not going to be the same kind of personality who makes for a serial entrepreneur.
  - keemoboy 16y ago
    I agree with both these points, but I disagree that wanting yourself and others on your team to be paid for the work you do, no more, no less, is the same thing as being entrepreneurial. There are many attributes that make someone entrepreneurial and there are many reasons people don't just start their own businesses. Getting paid for the work you do instead of being on a salary definitely has similar unpredictability, so it needs someone to be less risk averse than they're used to in their regular 9-5, but I think it's much more about freedom and fairness and these are qualities any engineer (or human being for that matter) craves. If I know I will get paid exactly for what I do I'm free to work as hard or as little as I want depending on my interest in the current project and whatever personal circumstances come my way. There isn't this unhealthy pull/push that happens in partnerships where people are constantly expected to do x% of the work. And I'm also free to not let my work rule my life, I'm in complete control. I think those who want to get paid for exactly the work they do are more akin to freelancers than entrepreneurs, emphasis on the 'free' :)
    - lsc 16y ago
      well, one thing I've learned in my business is that you don't need to make /everyone/ happy, you just need to make something /some/ people are willing to pay for, so don't listen too much to us naysayers.

by kabuks 16y ago

lsc 16y ago

>For me personally, I only want to work with people who want their compensation directly tied to their actions (contribution) Really? Why? The thing is, Engineers who are also entrepreneurial types are /much/ more expensive than engineers of equivalent skill who are not entrepreneurial. I'm not saying what you are trying to do is useless; I think it's very interesting, and I'd like to see how it plays out. But I am saying that there are problems with limiting yourself to only hiring entrepreneurial types.

_delirium 16y ago
Anecdotally, non-entrepreneurial engineers are also more likely to stick around long-term, if your workplace is enjoyable and the pay/benefits are good. It's hard to keep an entrepreneurial type around too long unless your company is the kind that's always launching new products or projects. If you want someone to build and maintain a system with a 10-year horizon, it's probably not going to be the same kind of personality who makes for a serial entrepreneur.
- keemoboy 16y ago
  I agree with both these points, but I disagree that wanting yourself and others on your team to be paid for the work you do, no more, no less, is the same thing as being entrepreneurial. There are many attributes that make someone entrepreneurial and there are many reasons people don't just start their own businesses. Getting paid for the work you do instead of being on a salary definitely has similar unpredictability, so it needs someone to be less risk averse than they're used to in their regular 9-5, but I think it's much more about freedom and fairness and these are qualities any engineer (or human being for that matter) craves. If I know I will get paid exactly for what I do I'm free to work as hard or as little as I want depending on my interest in the current project and whatever personal circumstances come my way. There isn't this unhealthy pull/push that happens in partnerships where people are constantly expected to do x% of the work. And I'm also free to not let my work rule my life, I'm in complete control. I think those who want to get paid for exactly the work they do are more akin to freelancers than entrepreneurs, emphasis on the 'free' :)
  - lsc 16y ago
    well, one thing I've learned in my business is that you don't need to make /everyone/ happy, you just need to make something /some/ people are willing to pay for, so don't listen too much to us naysayers.