5 ms·

This is another attempt to shell shovels during a gold rush, where the HN audience can play the role of the starry eyed rubes dreaming of easy riches. There is

by gizmo 10y ago

This is another attempt to shell shovels during a gold rush, where the HN audience can play the role of the starry eyed rubes dreaming of easy riches. There is no substance here, just a totally unsupported claim that building a SaaS app (of all things!) will bring profound personal meaning in your life. The only reason this post exists is to get people to sign up for his community thing. If anybody wants real advice, I got some for free: less talk, more product. You don't need any of the services people are trying to sell you. Build a product. Add Stripe. Profit. Not exactly rocket science.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jv22222 10y ago
> Build a product. Add Stripe. Profit. Not exactly rocket science. I don't think you realize just how much of a naive statement that is. That is honestly, genuinely, terrible advice that does not take in to account that building a business means building a BUSINESS not building software. They are two very different things. The idea that you can "build it and they will come" has been proven to be a fallacy many many times over. With regard to your other comments - Yes - I wrote that post with the express purpose of drawing attention to my product. That is called marketing and that is how you build a business. The trick is to always try to give value while you do that, and from reading the general tone of the comments here I believe that aim was achieved.
- jwilliams 10y ago
  Totally agree. I've had the fortune to have done a couple of rounds of "build it an they will come" (they didn't) to learn that lesson. Building a products is definitely the most _necessary_ part of any SaaS business, but it's just one component out of many.
- gizmo 10y ago
  Except I have actually done it, so I know what it takes, and it doesn't take an extraordinary, gargantuan, effort. You do need to work on some non-software skills, but not nearly as much as some as the HN wisdom would lead you to believe.
  - corobo 10y ago
    Whats your product?
- corobo 10y ago
  > building a business means building a BUSINESS not building software This has been my biggest reality check. Building software is easy. Do you know how much of a pain in the rear it is to, for example, open a bank account for a registered company? I didn't! It's not hard as such, just not something I've done before. The idea was to open a braintree account. The reality was I had to open a bank account for the business. To do that I had to get a passport (never been out of the country - it involved visiting passport interview office a few cities away to prove I'm me). I then had to write up a bit of a business plan so that I had numbers to give the bank. Then braintree wanted a bunch of info to open the account, this involves bank statements to prove I have enough liquid cash to cover chargebacks and refunds. Now I had to look at what a director's loan is (UK) and how to use that so I can put enough cash in the bank to prove I can cover chargebacks. I also registered the company far too early I believe, I had to do a tax self-assessment this month being a company director. I've never had to do that before, so that was another hurdle to figure out. I'm going to have to at some point before 2018 figure out how to do corporation tax and the likes as well as accounts. Either that or hire an accountant which is yet another interview and business plan scrutiny (first business plan I've ever written, so somewhat anxious I've done it completely wrong). Bear in mind all this doesn't even touch on advertising, marketing, landing pages, etc. Building software is easy.
  - dbbk 10y ago
    Have you looked into Crunch? I'm going to be starting my company through them. Should take care of a lot of those accountancy headaches for you.
jdormit 10y ago
Have you built a SaaS? I mean this genuinely, not as a jab - it seems like many commenters here who have built a SaaS agree that it was life changing and/or gave them a sense of meaning, so I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints from those in the same position.
- gizmo 10y ago
  I have, more than once, and profitably.
  - mildbow 10y ago
    How about a few links to these successful Saas apps you have built? Not that I believe you (or not), but your comments would have a lot more clout if you backed them with proof.
    - gizmo 10y ago
      You value your anonymity just like I do, and I have no interest in giving it up. People want to be lied to and want to believe that one more business course or one more networking event or one more book will finally give them the success they crave. So there are hucksters that meet this demand and sell people false hope. There is always a new angle, or a new set of buzzwords, or a new methodology that promises uncharted opportunity. The only thing I can do is tell people to stop and think carefully about what they're being sold.
      - mildbow 10y ago
        That's your prerogative and I understand the choice. However, the problem of how one can backup claims in an anonymous world is real. Maybe HN needs a third party who can verify claims privately (like reddit mods do).
      - jv22222 10y ago
        Um. Well. I'm not being anonymous. So you, who are not prepared to share anything about your success, are saying that I am the scam artist. http://techzinglive.com http://techzinglive.com - co host http://modernteacher.com http://modernteacher.com - cto http://plugg.io http://plugg.io - founder / sold http://nugget.one http://nugget.one - Where I help folks build saas apps My name is Justin Vincent. I live in Pasadena, LA. If anyone wants to email me they can get me on justinvincent@gmail.com And I will be happy to go for a drink with anyone if you come on over to Pasadena. (Drops mike, walks off stage)
shubhamjain 10y ago
> If anybody wants real advice, I got some for free: less talk, more product. You don't need any of the services people are trying to sell you. Build a product. Add Stripe. Profit. Not exactly rocket science. You're understating the effort of building an online business by a factor of thousand. Author's premise might not be widely applicable — that's debatable but don't make the mistake of assuming that you can just decide to build a product and rake $$$ in a jiffy. It takes a tremendous learning and an arduous effort to even hit few thousand dollars of stable monthly revenue.
- gizmo 10y ago
  No, there are many people here who don't know how to build a SaaS business and therefore believe it must be impossibly difficult. It isn't. Building a SaaS business is easier than starting almost any other kind of business. Running a restaurant is hard. Manufacturing is hard. Trying to make it as an independent artist is hard. Breaking through in Hollywood is hard. Writing a bestseller is hard. Selling software with a 98% profit margin is easy.
  - jv22222 10y ago
    Tell that to the 250+ entreprenures I've seen get no where. Perhaps you're gifted at this? In which case you should share the knowledge about what you have done. It sure as shit wasn't "Build something. Add stripe. Watch the money roll in".
    - gizmo 10y ago
      People have operated profitable businesses for centuries, so we pretty much know what works and what doesn't. I'm not sure I have anything to say that hasn't been said a thousand times before. I have no doubt that there's real value in business advice and coaching, but giving good personalized advice is hard. Just because my business works doesn't mean that I am able to distill exactly why. Not all good doers make good teachers, and vice versa.
  - tomcam 10y ago
    Awesome! Tell us about your successes in the SaaS world, please!
ruslan_talpa 10y ago
There's actually one step before "build product" if you want to to play it a bit more safe and not gable on 4 years of your life. That part is "validate idea". I found this article https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/the-epic-guide-to-bootstrapping-a-saas-startup-from-scratch-by-yourself-part-1-4d834e1df8c1 https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/the-epic-guide-to-bootstr... incredibly helpful, realistic and motivating in the sense that it sets realistic expectations. While i also skipped that step and went directly to build the product, i was lucky that when i got to the step of validating the idea it turned out to be ok. By the way, i am selling shovels over here :) http://graphqlapi.com http://graphqlapi.com
WA 10y ago
Selling shovels seems to be the next logical step for many after an exit. I can understand the feeling, but I'm conflicted. Somehow, people want to share their experience and genuinely help others. And often, slapping a price tag on their advice makes it more valuable than if it was given for free. On the other hand, the whole "I teach you how to make money" smells like a big scam. I wonder how many people really became successful because of doing a course and not despite of doing one. My gut feeling is, the majority of successful solo founders simply did what you said: build a product, somehow get the word out, profit.
- gizmo 10y ago
  I think this falls into the "blind leading the blind" category. When 37signals tells people what to do there is self-interest involved, but they also have real insights to share. When people are in the business of giving advice be very skeptical.

by gizmo 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jv22222 10y ago

> Build a product. Add Stripe. Profit. Not exactly rocket science. I don't think you realize just how much of a naive statement that is. That is honestly, genuinely, terrible advice that does not take in to account that building a business means building a BUSINESS not building software. They are two very different things. The idea that you can "build it and they will come" has been proven to be a fallacy many many times over. With regard to your other comments - Yes - I wrote that post with the express purpose of drawing attention to my product. That is called marketing and that is how you build a business. The trick is to always try to give value while you do that, and from reading the general tone of the comments here I believe that aim was achieved.

jwilliams 10y ago
Totally agree. I've had the fortune to have done a couple of rounds of "build it an they will come" (they didn't) to learn that lesson. Building a products is definitely the most _necessary_ part of any SaaS business, but it's just one component out of many.
gizmo 10y ago
Except I have actually done it, so I know what it takes, and it doesn't take an extraordinary, gargantuan, effort. You do need to work on some non-software skills, but not nearly as much as some as the HN wisdom would lead you to believe.
- corobo 10y ago
  Whats your product?
corobo 10y ago
> building a business means building a BUSINESS not building software This has been my biggest reality check. Building software is easy. Do you know how much of a pain in the rear it is to, for example, open a bank account for a registered company? I didn't! It's not hard as such, just not something I've done before. The idea was to open a braintree account. The reality was I had to open a bank account for the business. To do that I had to get a passport (never been out of the country - it involved visiting passport interview office a few cities away to prove I'm me). I then had to write up a bit of a business plan so that I had numbers to give the bank. Then braintree wanted a bunch of info to open the account, this involves bank statements to prove I have enough liquid cash to cover chargebacks and refunds. Now I had to look at what a director's loan is (UK) and how to use that so I can put enough cash in the bank to prove I can cover chargebacks. I also registered the company far too early I believe, I had to do a tax self-assessment this month being a company director. I've never had to do that before, so that was another hurdle to figure out. I'm going to have to at some point before 2018 figure out how to do corporation tax and the likes as well as accounts. Either that or hire an accountant which is yet another interview and business plan scrutiny (first business plan I've ever written, so somewhat anxious I've done it completely wrong). Bear in mind all this doesn't even touch on advertising, marketing, landing pages, etc. Building software is easy.
- dbbk 10y ago
  Have you looked into Crunch? I'm going to be starting my company through them. Should take care of a lot of those accountancy headaches for you.

jdormit 10y ago

Have you built a SaaS? I mean this genuinely, not as a jab - it seems like many commenters here who have built a SaaS agree that it was life changing and/or gave them a sense of meaning, so I'm interested in hearing other viewpoints from those in the same position.

gizmo 10y ago
I have, more than once, and profitably.
- mildbow 10y ago
  How about a few links to these successful Saas apps you have built? Not that I believe you (or not), but your comments would have a lot more clout if you backed them with proof.
  - gizmo 10y ago
    You value your anonymity just like I do, and I have no interest in giving it up. People want to be lied to and want to believe that one more business course or one more networking event or one more book will finally give them the success they crave. So there are hucksters that meet this demand and sell people false hope. There is always a new angle, or a new set of buzzwords, or a new methodology that promises uncharted opportunity. The only thing I can do is tell people to stop and think carefully about what they're being sold.
    - mildbow 10y ago
      That's your prerogative and I understand the choice. However, the problem of how one can backup claims in an anonymous world is real. Maybe HN needs a third party who can verify claims privately (like reddit mods do).
    - jv22222 10y ago
      Um. Well. I'm not being anonymous. So you, who are not prepared to share anything about your success, are saying that I am the scam artist. http://techzinglive.com http://techzinglive.com - co host http://modernteacher.com http://modernteacher.com - cto http://plugg.io http://plugg.io - founder / sold http://nugget.one http://nugget.one - Where I help folks build saas apps My name is Justin Vincent. I live in Pasadena, LA. If anyone wants to email me they can get me on justinvincent@gmail.com And I will be happy to go for a drink with anyone if you come on over to Pasadena. (Drops mike, walks off stage)

shubhamjain 10y ago

> If anybody wants real advice, I got some for free: less talk, more product. You don't need any of the services people are trying to sell you. Build a product. Add Stripe. Profit. Not exactly rocket science. You're understating the effort of building an online business by a factor of thousand. Author's premise might not be widely applicable — that's debatable but don't make the mistake of assuming that you can just decide to build a product and rake $$$ in a jiffy. It takes a tremendous learning and an arduous effort to even hit few thousand dollars of stable monthly revenue.

gizmo 10y ago
No, there are many people here who don't know how to build a SaaS business and therefore believe it must be impossibly difficult. It isn't. Building a SaaS business is easier than starting almost any other kind of business. Running a restaurant is hard. Manufacturing is hard. Trying to make it as an independent artist is hard. Breaking through in Hollywood is hard. Writing a bestseller is hard. Selling software with a 98% profit margin is easy.
- jv22222 10y ago
  Tell that to the 250+ entreprenures I've seen get no where. Perhaps you're gifted at this? In which case you should share the knowledge about what you have done. It sure as shit wasn't "Build something. Add stripe. Watch the money roll in".
  - gizmo 10y ago
    People have operated profitable businesses for centuries, so we pretty much know what works and what doesn't. I'm not sure I have anything to say that hasn't been said a thousand times before. I have no doubt that there's real value in business advice and coaching, but giving good personalized advice is hard. Just because my business works doesn't mean that I am able to distill exactly why. Not all good doers make good teachers, and vice versa.
- tomcam 10y ago
  Awesome! Tell us about your successes in the SaaS world, please!

ruslan_talpa 10y ago

There's actually one step before "build product" if you want to to play it a bit more safe and not gable on 4 years of your life. That part is "validate idea". I found this article https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/the-epic-guide-to-bootstrapping-a-saas-startup-from-scratch-by-yourself-part-1-4d834e1df8c1 https://medium.com/@cliffordoravec/the-epic-guide-to-bootstr... incredibly helpful, realistic and motivating in the sense that it sets realistic expectations. While i also skipped that step and went directly to build the product, i was lucky that when i got to the step of validating the idea it turned out to be ok. By the way, i am selling shovels over here :) http://graphqlapi.com http://graphqlapi.com

WA 10y ago

Selling shovels seems to be the next logical step for many after an exit. I can understand the feeling, but I'm conflicted. Somehow, people want to share their experience and genuinely help others. And often, slapping a price tag on their advice makes it more valuable than if it was given for free. On the other hand, the whole "I teach you how to make money" smells like a big scam. I wonder how many people really became successful because of doing a course and not despite of doing one. My gut feeling is, the majority of successful solo founders simply did what you said: build a product, somehow get the word out, profit.

gizmo 10y ago
I think this falls into the "blind leading the blind" category. When 37signals tells people what to do there is self-interest involved, but they also have real insights to share. When people are in the business of giving advice be very skeptical.