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People gave Google a lot of shit for their supposedly naive or hypocritical mantra of "don't be evil". Turns out it's genuine and not so naive after all. I str

by rsp1984 10y ago

People gave Google a lot of shit for their supposedly naive or hypocritical mantra of "don't be evil". Turns out it's genuine and not so naive after all. I strongly disagree. Google, like other companies, is very opportunistic and 100% calculating. Standing up for refugees and against Trump is a no-brainer move in Silicon Valley culture, especially when 1000s of others are doing the same and the majority of the media is on your side. There's only upside and no downside for Google and its employees in doing so. Sergey could have easily used his connections to get a 1:1 conversation with the president. That would have been 1000x more effective than joining a demo at SFO. He still chose the latter because he knew the effect it would have on social media. Google could use their resources and power to help with other causes and problems whose negative footprint on American society outclasses the refugee problem by orders of magnitude. But why waste any resources on that, since it's not a hot topic in the media and Google's hiring plans aren't affected? Nothing to gain there... Meanwhile they're getting close and cuddly with Trump's party to secure their political backing [1]. I'm not pro-Trump, in fact I think his refugee ban is beyond crazy, however I'm very deeply suspicious of people / organizations who tout themselves as the good guys ("don't be evil!") and then only stick their head out of their comfort zone when the cause is no-risk and it's ensured that the world is watching. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13502627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13502627

vthallam 10y ago
I understand the "joining the protest is just keeping up with the silicon valley statusquo" argument. But, Sergey is an immigrant too, and i guess,for him it's personal. I am pretty sure he and Google in general are considering all the other avenues such as meeting the president, educating people. You can do both.
geebee 10y ago
I'm surprised Sergey Brin's involvement in the no-hire collusion wasn't more deeply harmful to his reputation. I tend to agree with the protesters here, but I absolutely agree with you that there isn't much downside for Brin in taking this stand. I actually think that tech titans like Zuckerberg and Brin may be in a role similar to Hollywood stars in politics, but maybe even worse. Truth is, the H1B visa isn't really a visa that "allows" foreign workers to come to the US, it's a visa that allows corporate HR departments, largely in high tech, to decide who is and isn't allowed to come to the US - and the conditions under which they are allowed to stay. It's a remarkable power, an unacceptable one in my opinion. Although I'd be opposed to this kind of corporate control over the immigration system in general, I think that google showed itself very specifically unworthy of this power through its involvement in the no-poach collusion. But again, this is what I've come to expect - in fact, I'd say it's very naive to believe that handing corporations control over a big wing of th immigration system wouldn't lead to corporate mischief and an erosion of basic human rights for the workers whose lives they control. If google, Zuckerberg, and so forth lobbied fiercely for greater freedom for immigrants - freedom to choose what they study, what companies they work for (if any), freedom to move... really, just basic human freedom, then I might be more interested in this sort of stand. Otherwise, I tend to be deeply suspicious of their motives the moment they start to speak, because I know they have a political agenda that involves gaining control over the immigration system. But as it stands, I think that a lot of Silicon Valley "elites" like to wear the halo of being pro-immigrant while lobbying for a program that allows them to determine the circumstances under which would-be immigrants are allowed to come to the US and stay here. Just like the no-poach agreement, they use this to create a workforce that isn't allowed to participate freely in free labor markets, which I consider to be an essential component of basic human freedom. As you can tell, I don't care for them much anymore. And yeah, this was a personal transformation that took place over decades - there was a time I admired them.
- mr_spothawk 10y ago
  > and the conditions under which they are allowed to stay. ^^ this. I've had a few friends on H1B, and as far as I can tell they're just "stuck" in their jobs, or "forced" to leave the country. Maybe, there should be an app for finding US citizens compatible "life partners" that would enable the acquisition of Green Cards.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    It would be highly illegal. And there's probably a black market for it. Immigration is supposedly watching for it as well. I have heard in University one of my wives' friends wondering if she could marry an F-1 student to help him stay. Never inquired further what happened there...
    - mr_spothawk 10y ago
      greencardlifepartner82348sxq1.onion ... to could happen silly side note: I read your comment as "a friend of one of my wives" and lol'd a little inside.
      - Cpoll 10y ago
        That's the correct reading. It should(?) have been written "wife's."
        mr_spothawk 10y ago
        > one of my [multiple] wives. I think "wife's" is correct... but I'm not a grammaritician
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - flukus 10y ago
      More illegal than the foreign brides that have existed for decades?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by rsp1984 10y ago

vthallam 10y ago

I understand the "joining the protest is just keeping up with the silicon valley statusquo" argument. But, Sergey is an immigrant too, and i guess,for him it's personal. I am pretty sure he and Google in general are considering all the other avenues such as meeting the president, educating people. You can do both.

geebee 10y ago

I'm surprised Sergey Brin's involvement in the no-hire collusion wasn't more deeply harmful to his reputation. I tend to agree with the protesters here, but I absolutely agree with you that there isn't much downside for Brin in taking this stand. I actually think that tech titans like Zuckerberg and Brin may be in a role similar to Hollywood stars in politics, but maybe even worse. Truth is, the H1B visa isn't really a visa that "allows" foreign workers to come to the US, it's a visa that allows corporate HR departments, largely in high tech, to decide who is and isn't allowed to come to the US - and the conditions under which they are allowed to stay. It's a remarkable power, an unacceptable one in my opinion. Although I'd be opposed to this kind of corporate control over the immigration system in general, I think that google showed itself very specifically unworthy of this power through its involvement in the no-poach collusion. But again, this is what I've come to expect - in fact, I'd say it's very naive to believe that handing corporations control over a big wing of th immigration system wouldn't lead to corporate mischief and an erosion of basic human rights for the workers whose lives they control. If google, Zuckerberg, and so forth lobbied fiercely for greater freedom for immigrants - freedom to choose what they study, what companies they work for (if any), freedom to move... really, just basic human freedom, then I might be more interested in this sort of stand. Otherwise, I tend to be deeply suspicious of their motives the moment they start to speak, because I know they have a political agenda that involves gaining control over the immigration system. But as it stands, I think that a lot of Silicon Valley "elites" like to wear the halo of being pro-immigrant while lobbying for a program that allows them to determine the circumstances under which would-be immigrants are allowed to come to the US and stay here. Just like the no-poach agreement, they use this to create a workforce that isn't allowed to participate freely in free labor markets, which I consider to be an essential component of basic human freedom. As you can tell, I don't care for them much anymore. And yeah, this was a personal transformation that took place over decades - there was a time I admired them.

mr_spothawk 10y ago
> and the conditions under which they are allowed to stay. ^^ this. I've had a few friends on H1B, and as far as I can tell they're just "stuck" in their jobs, or "forced" to leave the country. Maybe, there should be an app for finding US citizens compatible "life partners" that would enable the acquisition of Green Cards.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  It would be highly illegal. And there's probably a black market for it. Immigration is supposedly watching for it as well. I have heard in University one of my wives' friends wondering if she could marry an F-1 student to help him stay. Never inquired further what happened there...
  - mr_spothawk 10y ago
    greencardlifepartner82348sxq1.onion ... to could happen silly side note: I read your comment as "a friend of one of my wives" and lol'd a little inside.
    - Cpoll 10y ago
      That's the correct reading. It should(?) have been written "wife's."
      - mr_spothawk 10y ago
        > one of my [multiple] wives. I think "wife's" is correct... but I'm not a grammaritician
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - flukus 10y ago
    More illegal than the foreign brides that have existed for decades?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]